Motor Sport
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Definitely super awkward but Leclerc deserved the penalty. I just don’t understand the way FIA and F1 operate sometimes. I feel like Russell got away with worse last race and it’s always someone else’s fault with him.
I can’t believe Max put up that kind of margin in that few laps though. The lack of spray and clean air up front only account for so much, and certainly can’t explain 27 seconds. Probably would have lapped the field except for the podium finishers in a full race. Mad pace.
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yeah the pace on race day has been mad for red bull all season bar the first few races they had.
Leclerc probably deserved a penalty but what max did to Norris on Saturday was worthy of one too, but he got away with just a warning.
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…and it won’t happen, but imagine if they came out and said Red Bull has broken the cap and they are disqualified for the season…
I am minded to side with Hamilton here, and I paraphrase, "If we had overspent by $7m in 2021, then I think we'd have won the championship last year, and be in a significantly better position this year"
Again, you Max lovers, do not think that this is a dig at Max, he is supernaturally talented (but I suspect a crashing bore over a pint down the pub), and I am in awe of what he can do…..But........
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Of course that’s true, but it’s a complete waste of breath to talk about cost caps until we see the receipts. Hopefully we will and FIA won’t pull the secretive bullshit like they did with Ferrari when they got caught cheating in 2019.
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Another thought: a regulation that doesn't have concrete definition as to infractions and associated consequences is a joke. A nebulous threat that is unmoored to specific parameters opens the door to arbitrary enforcement, which is probably intentional–FIA loves to pick winners as we have seen repeatedly, including 2021 WDC.
It's a shame--I like the idea of a cost cap because I want a level playing ground for the independent teams, but they really botched it.
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interesting thought regarding cost caps.
the premier league, is in a way not govern by any cost caps, financial fair play aside, which makes it the most lucrative and competitive league in the world. I'm not sure cost cap is an effective solution to levelling the playing field. I think that it stifles innovation and competitiveness. whereas on the other hand, a free market would generate much more innovation and competitiveness. but then again, there's also a whole different discussion between a man (football players) and a machine (cars)
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EPL doesn't represent what I like to see in sports in terms of economics. Sure, the bloated budgets bring the best players in the world, but it's top-heavy, with well over half the spend distributed among the top 6 of 20 teams, who are basically the only teams in contention for titles year after year. Major League Baseball in the US is similarly liberal about spend, but for some reason (part of it the playoffs, I'm sure) has a weaker correlation between spend and success.
I would prefer a model more similar to the NFL or NHL with revenue sharing and cost caps, which are proven to create parity in those sports, and if legislated and enforced effectively, will do the same in F1. This gives the independent teams a fighting chance, and who doesn't love an underdog? It also means we would be less likely to see the same champion year in, year out, or if we do, it's because they are a better team, not because they are better funded. The situation now where most of the field fights for mediocrity every single year isn't satisfying to me, and I don't think the innovation that comes from unfettered spending offsets that in the least. Best season in recent memory happened under the cap after all.
That said, the rationale for the cap is not just to level the playing field. It actually could make it much more attractive for moneyed teams such as manufacturers to compete as well. Someone like Audi may have seen pre-cap F1 as a financial black hole, and having some definition around spend could help them decided to join the fray. Then there's the sustainability aspect.
One thing I have been thinking about is rolling caps, where going over one year, instead of just a penalty which disproportionately impacts the smaller teams, a cap hit the following year proportionate to the overspend, perhaps with a budget floor so that teams don't just violate the cap each year.
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the EPL may have massive spend within the top 6, but at the same time, it's the only league in the world that a team in 20th may overrun the top team in the league. granted, it might not be the same across the top leagues in Europe where only 2 or 3 teams will compete at the top every year.
maybe a better solution would be the equivalent to FFP where revenues decide how much a team can spend. this not only creates a fairer playing ground for teams to attract supporters, it also helps build the support in terms of F1 and who knows maybe even F2 and F3.. think of it as a team in the premier league has it's reserves and U21/U18s down the "ladder"
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I saw this on the F1 subreddit a while back
Not shown here, but Max’s win rate when Leclerc has pole is twice Leclerc’s own win rate when he himself has pole.
Obviously reliability and strategy issues at play here but it’s just such a stark contrast I found it noteworthy.
I’d love to see Sir Lewis mount a challenge for WDC #8 next season and for Charles to be in the mix as well even if I kind of dislike Ferrari as a team.
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mount a challenge for WDC #9 next season
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I'm with you Zak…..
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My take is to put a probably in front of that since we still haven't seen the receipts.
If they don't come down hard on cap violations and only do fines, then it does the precise opposite of what it was intended to do and increases the advantage of the moneyed teams instead of leveling the playing field.
But the regulations (I've read them) are very open to interpretation and this is a difficult regulation that will probably require some iterations to get it dialed in.
The FIA has botched handling of the whole thing. None of us should have heard anything about this until they were ready to make public the findings. Maybe they think generating this kind of gossip and speculation is press, and any press is good press. I would counter that there are a lot of new fans, and the appearance of unfairness could jeopardize the growth of the sport by turning them and even long-term fans away from a sport they view as rigged, especially with the management of Abu Dhabi last year.
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But the regulations (I've read them) are very open to interpretation and this is a difficult regulation that will probably require some iterations to get it dialed in.
Which is why 2020 was a test year, so teams could do precisely that…...
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And still there is ambiguity in the regulations, so like I said, "some iterations" I think will be required. One season isn't enough for a cost cap regulation to come out perfect in such a complex sport with so many clever people trying to figure out ways to game the regulations.
Zak has the same idea I do of applying penalties to the following year's cap, but he added something that addresses a problem I hadn't resolved yet with that idea: that a team could just keep violating year over year without caring about penalties if they have the budget for that.
His idea was two or more minor breaches constitute a major breach. If those two can occur in consecutive seasons, that closes the gap in cap penalties.
Then again, if your cap gets drawn down year after year, eventually there will be a major breach I guess. I like his idea a lot though to impose a more immediate, meaningful penalty.
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Cheating in sport happens in all venues and all levels. The seven times Lance Armstrong won the Tour de France were probably the most talked about and most watched of that series's entire history. Ask the average person who Lance Armstrong was/is and most would be able to tell you and then ask them who the current winner of the Tour is (Jonas Vingegaard - I had to look it up).
My daughter just finished her cross country running season and told me numerous kids cut corners during practice and the race. She's 11… It's hard to tell her that it happens and she should accept it or she should do it herself, because I don't want her too. I don't agree with it and hope she doesn't and feel my role as a parent is to teach her right from wrong. At the end of the day I hope I'm doing it right, but realize not everyone plays by the same rule book.
As for F1, is it fair for one team to cheat and gain an unfair advantage...No, but how many others have not been caught (yet). Drama sells tickets, gains viewers, and viewers buy merchandise. Like it or not, the entire industry is making money off of this entire situation and the benefits to all of this affects us all.
Think about the technologies developed for F1 and all of motorsport that trickle down into the vehicles we drive today. Faster, more efficient, better for the environment, and safer.
It would be great if there was no cheating in sports, but it has happened since sports began...I don't condone it, just want to state that there isn't a sport today that isn't fixed at some level...
I do hope they find a way to make it better and more fair for everyone...Just my $.02
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and to finish my thought process. How do fix something that most teams are doing (probably) at some level, with teams of lawyers and accountants that look for and exploit legal loopholes? Is it cheating if it’s a loophole, everyone’s doing it, or a rule that hasn’t been written.
I used to believe that the legal and justice systems were fair and based upon what is right and wrong…as I got older I realized it’s about how much money a person is willing to spend in order to prove that they’re right. It’s not fair, but…
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It's definitely interesting to see how cheating intersects this sport. It's one reason I presume that there are spec series out there, to make it all about the driver and pit strategy instead of the complex, multifactorial gumbo that is F1. I think that including car development is a big part of what makes F1 great, but it's also a major source of inequity between the performance ceilings of the haves and haves not, and very difficult to regulate with or without caps in place, and especially with.
The teams have to agree to the rules, and I don't think you'll get teams to buy into sharing IP as a penalty. That supposedly is how Ferrari wound up in a secret settlement with F1 when they cheated in 2019.
One interesting idea though for a different "Robin Hood" way of managing the penalties could be that the overspend payments a) apply against next year's cap (as mentioned), b) two consecutive minors constitute a major infraction (also as mentioned), c) the penalty payments incurred by the offending team are shared between the compliant teams to help the smaller guys even the playing ground. Maybe this incremental revenue can be spent without counting against the cap? I haven't thought that through fully, but hurting yourself and helping your opponents in the same breach would presumably get people's attention and hopefully get them to toe the line more carefully.
