Are you a RAW (STF), Selvedge, un-sanforized loyalist ?
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The reason I bring this up is because, from time to time, I get on BIG's website…wondering if the grass is greener on the other side (i.e. Samurais). I mean, I'm madly in love with my Iron Heart clothes. I could not be happier with 'em. And, the old saying goes "If it ain't broke, don't go fixin' it".
I personally am not in the least hung up on jeans having to be RAW (STF), selvedge or un-sanforized. A quick look at Giles' old & worn 634S photos shows you the stunning beauty lurking within sanforized jeans, just waiting to jump out. Also, the latest pic posted by Alex wearing IH-1461 (in the "Tom Boys" thread) shows how good non-selvedge, non-RAW/STF, non-indigo, sanforized (God forbid !!!) can look with time. Hiromotos IH-9461, 6 months daily wear - 5 washes in the "Evo" thread are velvety beautiful...they have a unique, shiny look which occurs with frequent wear -- IMHO no less beautiful than fading and creases.
I don't relate to the obsession with the fading process. I don't wash my jeans often simply because, as much money as I've spent on them -- I don't want them to become pajamas anytime soon.
Sometimes I wonder...modernization has enforced this sterile, office-bound, robotic life upon us and we yearn for "The Rustic Cowboy Era"...so that's why we obsess as we do. I doubt if the cowboys or miners of yesterday gave their jeans a second thought...yet our own jeans could never do justice to our forefathers' -- no matter how hard we wear our jeans and don't wash em. Maybe Seul can come close since he actually does manual labor for a living. But me ? C'mon ! I'm a total joke compared to these guys, as my prissy little fingers type all day on a keyboard and drag a mouse around, hoping that my jeans get the fading/creases that they so deserve !
The main reason I wear IH jeans is because they're made of stupendously insane high quality, and being a smallish person, they fit better than any other jeans I've ever owned. I also like 21++ oz...since I'm generally prone to being cold often.
I'm curious to know your thoughts on this.
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Every pair of raw indigo - no matter if it's sanforized or not will fade. It all depends on how much u wear them.
We can do anything
http://bybeatle.com -
Unsanforized, to me, just so happens to be what i am wearing. The Denime 66xx's and Flat Head 2004's are completely different cuts and use completely different denim (naturally…kinda dont know why i mentioned that). anyways, the most recent experience i had with sanforized denim was with Imperial Dukes and around the same time i had gotten myself a pair of samurai 710's...The samurais made my imperials look like a pair of 501STF's. There was no comparison in terms of quality between the two for the sams blew the dukes out of the water. So this is one example of my experience with san vs unsan.
But this brings me to why i tend(ed) to like unsanforized. There is an intense personal experience to me when you take new unsan jeans and try them on, then when you see what would be better (hot or cold soak) and then finally soak them and air dry... there is something about that entire process to me that adds to the desire of wearing the jeans! Similar to when one gets a new pair and they want them hemmed, the wait is killer; well to me this feeling is similar in that way, except a little longer. And finally, once dry, when you put them on and feel that intense crunch that doesnt come from starch, thats an amazing payoff...but thats not the best part. My truly truly favorite parts are when you see the leg twist from the shrinking and when the slubbiness of the denim can really be seen in the sun and when you see all of those hairs that had gotten singed off of the shrinking process that happens in sanforizing.
That said, those are my own reasons to really like things about unsan denim (aside from cut of course), however, to those who may start their search from starting with brand/unsanforized only/ etc, i believe that they see companies like Samurai and Flat Head, who have unsanforized denim that is very very fast to fade, they may be the ones who go all nuts about unsanforized because it yields them fast results. Immediate gratification for people who dont want to work their bums off to get great fades... but it doesnt hurt that the rigid denim creates intense fades. I mean, think Sidney Lo and his 3001's.
i feel like i'm ranting now, so i'll shut up.
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Biggest pet peeve with jeans = stretching… So mostly STFs are out of the question for me, unless you're talking Samurais who are obviously built in such a way that the fit stays perfect for a long(er) while...
My first 'better' pair of jeans was a Levi's 501xx '47 (LVC) model btw, the ones made in the USA... Horrible, horrible jeans... No idea why they're so desired... Stretches like mad after 3-5 days of wear... And they cost almost as much as Sams in €urope... Imagine that...
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most IH jeans are sanforized. 301s is sanforized, 634 is, too, SEXIH 03 is…one of the few that isn´t is the SEXIH 07 19 oz..
sanforization is controlled shrinkage - doesn´t really effect the fading. The denim itself (dye, indigo, warp, weft or weight) are responsible for certain fading characteristics...such as whiskers, creasing, honeycombs or vertical fallingWe can do anything
http://bybeatle.com -
@ simon- all jeans shrink just like all jeans stretch. However, there will be a LARGE different in shrinking with a wash/soak in an unsanforized pair as opposed to a sanforized pair. where in the san you might shrink .5 of an inch, in the unsanforized you can lose up to 1.5-2 (talking waist shrinking right now, i dont even wanna start with inseam
) But yeah, it all depends on the denim aswell. certain types of denim are crazy stretchers, think skulls, while other denims do the normal inch or so stretch.@seul- he wanted straight leg, those jeans are both slim; not to mention 3001 is discontinued.
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@ simon- all jeans shrink just like all jeans stretch. However, there will be a LARGE different in shrinking with a wash/soak in an unsanforized pair as opposed to a sanforized pair. where in the san you might shrink .5 of an inch, in the unsanforized you can lose up to 1.5-2 (talking waist shrinking right now, i dont even wanna start with inseam
) But yeah, it all depends on the denim aswell. certain types of denim are crazy stretchers, think skulls, while other denims do the normal inch or so stretch.@seul- he wanted straight leg, those jeans are both slim; not to mention 3001 is discontinued.
[/quote]I've still got some 3001 here
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@ giles- but i thought they were done with both that style and the f380? did you mean you have some stock left? cause if you do
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@ giles- but i thought they were done with both that style and the f380? did you mean you have some stock left? cause if you do
lol.I may be confusing you. I have Flat Head 3001 here, IH-301S are a Self Edge exclusive. And whilst I get them made for Self Edge, I dio not sell them.
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i feel like i'm ranting now, so i'll shut up.
I liked reading your ranting deadendpro. I learned something…
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I think the shrink-to-fit thing in raw denim is what makes the attraction. It is true that they will conform to your body better, especially if you get the sizing right and actually let them shrink and dry on your body (the drying part is more important). Getting the sizing right means to be able to anticipate both shrinkage and stretch so that they will be just right afterwards. Usually it takes some trial and error with the same model unless you get lucky. And the dry on body process is really only recommended if you live somewhere so warm where you can lay in the sun and let it dry on your body without getting an infection or a cold.
Of course, you can get lucky with sanforized jeans, too. I think the 9634 is the best fitting pair I have out of a dozen or so. They are marvelous. As long as the fit and the quality are right, I don't care if it's raw or not.
Simon, if you just want to experiment a little with raw jeans get yourself into a pair of 501 STF. The Verde Rigid model has a really beautiful green cast. They look very stylish. I think I paid $35 for mine. Have not seen a single other person with those jeans on the UT campus of 50,000 students.
Till
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Thanks shub.
@ giles- i know that the 301s and the 9301 are two styles that are exclusive to self edge, but i was under the impression, although i think i had heard it right (Ginno from self edge), that the 3001, F310 and F380 are now no longer in production. So what i had meant to say when you said that you had Flat Head 3001's is that i was wondering if you meant in stock with you or if you meant that you still get them from Flat Head and they were actually still in production. I think i may have muddled the water a bit much but i hope this time i got it a tad bit clearer. :-\
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@simon626:
Okay, on the topic of being a loyalist, Right now i'm kinda bent on never buying anything that isn't IH or TW denim-wise. The problem is, this loyalty doesn't come without it's royalty tax. 300+ dollars per pair of jeans really isn't easy for me to come by. I've decided that i am in DIRE need of a pair of straight raws. The thing is, do i just save until i have enough money to buy from a brand that i know i will LOVEEEEEEEEEEEEE, or should i opt for a cheaper pair that fills my necessity yet is a little less burdening on my wallet?
I was referring to this post of yours. Certainly, the standard $35 501 STF stand no comparison to the $300 IH jeans but they are nice jeans in their own right, the color is great (you get to choose from like six to eight shades) and you can experiment a bit with fit and the right STF technique. Besides, many of the Japanese jeans are 501 repros in one way or another. Mine last on average 4 years but my rotation is large and I don't get them repaired. I just trade them down for sloppy look, yard work, outdoor activity or paint projects.
As far as asking a sales person for fit, this is where Giles and Kiya really shine. I find that the average sales person will tell you n'importe quoi or outright admit they have no clue (which is preferable).
Till
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Thanks shub.
@ giles- i know that the 301s and the 9301 are two styles that are exclusive to self edge, but i was under the impression, although i think i had heard it right (Ginno from self edge), that the 3001, F310 and F380 are now no longer in production. So what i had meant to say when you said that you had Flat Head 3001's is that i was wondering if you meant in stock with you or if you meant that you still get them from Flat Head and they were actually still in production. I think i may have muddled the water a bit much but i hope this time i got it a tad bit clearer. :-\
TFH 3001 still being produced, and i have a few pairs in stock. F series not being made any longer, though I still have a few F380's here.
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@simon- i'm sorry to say it, but N&F is mediocre at best man. do yourself a huge favor and pass on that. Its worth it to get one really nice item instead of getting something early and not having that itch that burns a hole in your pocket. Trust me, i have done these things before, and you will have buyers regret when you go back online and think to yourself "man, i should have waited and gotten my 634s/301s/3001s etc.." you know? i'm just trying to give you my honest opinion man.
@giles- Oh really???? dope! ok, so its just the Frontier series that isnt being made anymore. ok, i get it now. cool, thanks giles.
