Coronavirus (Covid-19) Discussion
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@Palmer sorry about you loss. I feel the same way, isolated and alone.
Having had the virus I can say that I would gladly walk naked to the hospital in a snow storm up hill both ways to get a vaccine tonight. I've injected all kind of crazy stuff into my arms in the past willingly. So I am not worried about there being any side effects and I certainly wouldn't wish this virus on my worst enemy. It has been awful.
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Australia has, through a mixture of luck, early border closures, and strict lockdowns, managed to keep the pandemic under control. I think that the current outbreak from Sydney has twenty or thirty new cases per day.
The vaccine rollout is due to begin in March, although there is political pressure to bring it forward. I'm happy to receive a dose, and I suspect that it'll be mandatory if I want to travel overseas in the next few years, but I'm not in a rush. The last case of Covid in the small town I'm living in was in March last year.
Qantas announced the resumption of international flights will happen in July, but I think that they're being optimistic. I can't see travel to the US or UK happening in 2021, and one epidemiologist suggested that hotel quarantine for arrivals will continue for several years beyond that.
@Palmer I'm also sorry to hear of your loss, and I'm glad that @Filthy recovered from his run-in with the virus.
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I would have preferred Pfizer to Moderna because of a slightly higher efficacy and smaller dose, but I’ll take what I can get.
How will this work in the US? I assume all vaccines are covered by health insurance, so you get what you can when you can? I appreciate you are not in the same boat as the average punter will be when this is rolled out over the coming months..
No charge for the vaccine. Supposedly the gov't is paying for it.
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I definitely want to make it clear I would NEVER want to disuade anyone from having a vaccine. I do want us to have sovereignty over our own body and be able to make a personally informed choice.
Who is aware that if you have an allegery to penecillin, the risk of taking some vaccines is significantly greater? I am also a front line social care worker in the UK and I am currently contributing to Local Authoriie's policy and guidance on the vaccine. I have to read shit loads of published data on the 2 vaccines currently available in th UK.
The average capacious person isn't asked many questions, or given much info, by the person administering the vaccine. Consent is almost implied by turning up to your appointment. For people without mental capacity, the important info that they and their advocate are given is much more. It's basic, but much more.
Everyone needs to do what is right for them and their loved ones, and wider society. Please make sure you are informed beyond Fox News and BBC headlines. Take care all.
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Yeah I read about the allergic reactions a small minority experienced, but they had a history of allergic reactions to other drugs…
It's funny: when I was in the hospital, I was asked that question a number of times... "Are you allergic to some medication/ drugs"... How was I to know?.. All I know is, is that I'm not allergic to whiskey... I don't take medication, and I've never been to hospital... I just said "no" and well that turned out to be the right answer...
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out of curiosity, how many of you have had vaccines that have been around for a long time, such as BCG or the ones for Hep A and B?
could the current resistance to this be more of how new this is to us or how quick it's been developed rather than being anti vaccination thing? I think for most of us here, vaccines like BCG and the ones for Hepatitis A and B have been out a long time and we don't question it as it has been successful for many years before..
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Another item that is very important to note that isn't particularly explained clearly in a lot of places is the second round of the vaccine generally hits you harder. My wife's first shot she felt nothing beside a sore arm. The second shot which she got days ago she felt like she had a solid case of the flu (chills, fever, fatigue). This took about a day to go away and she now feels totally normal.
For the select few who have an allergy to it you will know very quickly. I can only speak for the hospitals around here, but they are all having those who just received the vaccine sit in a waiting room for 15 minutes after the shot. If you're body hasn't had a serious reaction to it by then it is very likely it will not…. The typical flu like symptoms that come with the second shot manifest hours later and shouldn't be taken as an allergic reaction.
@louisbosco I'd say the resistance to this vaccine is largely due to the blessing and the curse of the Information Age we live in. This vaccine hasn't had the trials that a typical vaccine gets, which is a fair concern. But, this vaccine has also come out during a time when people are constantly peppered with bad information. It feels like even 25 or so years ago you were either informed or you weren't. Today it feels like every one is informed, it's just a matter of whether their information if legitimate or trash. Trying to convince people of something when they know nothing is much easier than trying to convince people of something when they already think they know.
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So far Bill Gates hasn't taken over control of her mind….
She would say that though
I think Jeff Bezos has control of my Wife's mind, must have with all the Amazon parcels arriving every day.
::)
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@BloodnThunder I guess that generally applies to all the news we hear through the media today, the constant bombardment of information. things weren't necessary better or worst in the older days, we just receive the information at a slower rate and the true effect of the news has passed.
Why I ask that as well is because, BCG and Hepatitis vaccines amongst a few others (measles/mumps etc) were mandatory from a young age. (at least where I grew up in Singapore) This is the first time where something new has hit the shelf. Most people wouldn't bat an eyelid when it comes to vaccination for old school diseases like smallpox or tuberculosis, which is why I wonder where the resistance is coming from. Would we go 50 years down the road where this C19 vaccination is one of the few common vaccinations you have as a kid..
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@BloodnThunder good to know. Something to look forward to!
Arm was pretty sore yesterday, but that seems to be about it. Again, pretty normal for intramuscular injections in my experience. As @ROman said below, the government is paying for the vaccine itself, though you still may be charged for the administration of it depending on who your provider is. With the way the US healthcare system is, that would probably end up being a couple of hundred dollars. I’d like to say that’s a joking exaggeration…
I am very sorry to those of you who have lost loved ones, or had covid yourself. It seems like six degrees of separation here, in that a few months ago it was your sisters friends grandmoms friends son who had it, and now I’d guess most of us know someone directly effected. I am even more sorry because I feel it didn’t have to be like this.
I didn’t note in my original post, but they did ask about allergies, and not just to medications. We had to sit for 15 minutes after as well. I would hope that by the time someone were old enough to get the Covid vaccine (16 or 18 depending on which one), they would have been exposed to enough potential allergens to have some idea of how they would react. Ironically I had several allergies pre cancer that weren’t there post treatment. That was odd.
Part of my misgiving was that it does seem quick to have a vaccine out. I initially thought it could be as long as several years. The speed is a testament to technology and that study into vaccines against coronaviruses (SARS and MERS) has been underway since the early 2000’s. So while it does seem quick, there had already been a lot of work done on vaccines for very similar viruses. I can certainly see and understand people being wary about how quickly the vaccines have come around.
In the US, I’d certainly say that politics and ones political beliefs impact the likelihood of vaccination. If you don’t believe the coronavirus is real, then there’s nothing to get vaccinated against, right? The president has done nothing to help, constantly undercutting advice from his own experts whether by words or by behavior (not wearing a mask for instance). And as we saw on Wednesday, they are definitely listening.
Anyway, just some thoughts. I appreciate the discussion. Since I am fortunate enough to get vaccinated so early, I am trying to talk about my experience with people so they can make a decision for themselves when the times comes. -
Trying to convince people of something when they know nothing is much easier than trying to convince people of something when they already think they know.
Exactimundo.
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So as we are discussing being informed, not informed, or otherwise, who are the arbitors of this information? Who are the moral and ethical decision makes that determine what is correct and should be accepted? Which multiple sources of information do you seek? If you really want to know what is going on in this world you have to be objective in your collection and analysis of data.
Do we realise that one on the reasons that the Oxford vaccine was later to market is that it completely failed all initial non-human tests? All the vaccines have been tested on 1st mice 2nd rehsus monkeys 3rd humans. Oxford had an initial test of 10 vaccinated rehsus and 10 non vaccinated rehsus. The result? No difference in immunity. What happened? They went on to human testing anyway. They published these results and withheld later results. You can find this info in their own published research and on some fact check websites.
We assume that all vaccines that we are used to are OK. My wife and I took our son to a Hartley Street vaccine consultant specialist, globally published, and during our consultation he discussed the full list of NHS recommended vaccines, which gender the diseases affected, global prevelance of the disease, the last time that their was a recorded death, heavy metal content of vaccine (aluminium is particularly damaging in higher doses, such as when administered in combined vaccines).
We agreed a vaccine program for our son, it wasn't expensive, his UK child benefit payments easily covered it each month. He is very healthy, top 98% centile, and we have no regrets putting the time and research in. Why? Because this published, professor of immunology knows a damn sight more than I ever would pretend to know. It certainly opened our eyes to some of the misinformation that is put out from BOTH sides of the vaccine debate.
You have to ask also what incentives different groups? What insentivises anti-vaccers? Is it multimillion dollar deals with Governments? Oh no, wait…
York and Oxford University submitted a paper to Parliament recommending mandatory uptake of their vaccine, using the Mental Health Act to detain people who refuse, look it up, the paper is readily available on line. What free thinking person who values their rights, and the rights of their loved ones to make their own, deeply personal decision on the matter, could reasonably think that OK? Buy our vaccine, buy enough of it to vaccinate a whole population... We'll give you mate's rates, honestly.
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But Matt Hancock told us he's already booked his summer hols. 10 nights in a 6 berth caravan on a holiday park in Dorset. He used his Sun newspaper holiday vouchers jus to be on the safe side. If he has to cancel it he's only lost £12. The man's a winner
@kasi I love the detail of the Buffy mask
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@Kasi "I know you didn't do shit last summer"
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I have pretty terrible social anxiety. So one of the silver linings I can appreciate about this whole situation is being able to comfortably tell people to, "give me my 6 feet" while I am out having a drink.
