Are you a RAW (STF), Selvedge, un-sanforized loyalist ?
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I was just flipping through kiya's editorial rant against unsanforized denim in the Self-Edge Superfuture thread. I have no desire to join that madness, so I am posting here:
Kiya, you know what has worn out faster than my "weak" 23oz unsanforized denim? The fuck!ng chainstitch your employees put on my hem.
I could say a bunch of sh!t against his flippant claim that sanforized denim will inevitably last longer than soaked, unsanforized denim, but time will tell and the IHForum doesn't need the drama. Given the way he still mis-measures the products he sells on his webpage, I don't really care what he thinks, he's just trying to create excitement for his new stuff. But he has no authority to make claims of this magnitude based on his own manipulated opinion. There is no available information that supports his position on durability. Sanforization shrinks the fabric. Wear, weave, weight, construction quality, and age are what determine the life span, not heat+steam+big metal/rubber rollers (the sanforization process).
I would ask Haraki to graciously provide some perspective on the durability of his unsanforized denim.
Here's my own manipulated opinion: Kiya is the Paula Deen of the denim industry.
Edit (For those who felt this should go in the SuFu thread): I am not a SuFu member, nor will I ever be, so if anything gets posted from me it gets posted here. And since I was asking for Haraki's specific feedback, posting here is relevant. Kiya is on this thread and so are several other Self-Edge customers, including myself and I don't care if he sees it or not. Giles sells unsanforized denim to people in America and all over the world, and so do other retailers, so when Kiya starts shitting on other peoples products in order to hype up his own, it should be noted everywhere. To have one of the figureheads of Japanese selvedge in America start relaying polluted information about products that cost hundreds of dollars is an insult to all of his customers who are trying to make the best decisions possible about their clothes. Why does nobody care about the truth?
And @ Shoreman: I don't think my remarks are anymore inflammatory than your post in the Two Feet Ahead thread saying you're not impressed with the socks that you intentionally bought too fuckin small.
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@adam313:
I was just flipping through kiya's editorial rant against unsanforized denim in the Self-Edge Superfuture thread. I have no desire to join that madness, so I am posting here:
Kiya, you know what has worn out faster than my "weak" 23oz unsanforized denim? The fuck!ng chainstitch your employees put on my hem.
I could say a bunch of sh!t against his flippant claim that sanforized denim will inevitably last longer than soaked, unsanforized denim, but time will tell and the IHForum doesn't need the drama. Given the way he still mis-measures the products he sells on his webpage, I don't really care what he thinks, he's just trying to create excitement for his new stuff. But he has no authority to make claims of this magnitude based on his own manipulated opinion. There is no available information that supports his position on durability. Sanforization shrinks the fabric. Wear, weave, weight, construction quality, and age are what determine the life span, not heat+steam+big metal/rubber rollers (the sanforization process).
I would ask Haraki to graciously provide some perspective on the durability of his unsanforized denim.
Here's my own manipulated opinion: Kiya is the Paula Deen of the denim industry.
Not that I have an opinion on the actual content of this post, but if you're going to make such inflammatory statements, you might as well do so in the actual thread where the comment was made that incited this reaction.
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Not that I have an opinion on the actual content of this post, but if you're going to make such inflammatory statements, you might as well do so in the actual thread where the comment was made that incited this reaction.
Yeah, I am not sure he will see this here. You should post in the actual thread/ forum where the comment(s) were made. But yes this is "Random Rants" so I guess you were right for putting it here. Just an odd approach IMO.
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@adam313:
Edit (For those who felt this should go in the SuFu thread): I am not a SuFu member, nor will I ever be, so if anything gets posted from me it gets posted here. And since I was asking for Haraki's specific feedback, posting here is relevant. Kiya is on this thread and so are several other Self-Edge customers, including myself and I don't care if he sees it or not. Giles sells unsanforized denim to people in America and all over the world, and so do other retailers, so when Kiya starts shitting on other peoples products in order to hype up his own, it should be noted everywhere. To have one of the figureheads of Japanese selvedge in America start relaying polluted information about products that cost hundreds of dollars is an insult to all of his customers who are trying to make the best decisions possible about their clothes. Why does nobody care about the truth?
And @ Shoreman: I don't think my remarks are anymore inflammatory than your post in the Two Feet Ahead thread saying you're not impressed with the socks that you intentionally bought too fuckin small.
Thanks for the update sir. I do hope Kiya reads this and responds.
Also, any chance I can get a link to said comments?
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And @ Shoreman: I don't think my remarks are anymore inflammatory than your post in the Two Feet Ahead thread saying you're not impressed with the socks that you intentionally bought too fuckin small.
I don't hide behind the notion of not being a member at a particular forum to protect myself from the public scrutiny of those that matter. If you don't care, like you blatantly stated, have the balls to make your remarks in the appropriate place and or contact the intended person directly. I made my comments in the "Two Feet Ahead" thread on the forum operated by the store I purchased the product from and had a dialogue with people who have purchased the same products as I and even garnered a response from G himself. Shut your mouth and think before you post.
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watching & listening.
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yawn… keep it classy guys :-\
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@adam313:
Looks like the Self-Edge thread will be getting one more post today.
U sign up for Sufu?
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Here you go Shore, Edit: Have A Nice Day!
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@adam313:
Here you go Shore, now fuck off!
Prepare your flame retardant suit!
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Sorry to have to say this but telling one of the other forums members to "fuck off" seems a bit harsh for this forum.
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Sorry to have to say this but telling one of the other forums members to "fuck off" seems a bit harsh for this forum.
No I do not agree. If one can curse out of excitement, one should be allowed to curse out of anger as well. I am pretty sure Shoreman is not torn up about it. And I am sure adam was just voicing frustration.
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peace guys. i think this whole thing has been blown out of proportion. the way i see it, i am pretty damn sure the durability differences between raw and sanforized is minimal at best, especially if you're talking about denim that is 21 oz and above.
i don't think it's worth fussing over. just wear whatever the hell you prefer! putting the comparison of durability aside, even if raw was not as durable as sanforized, i'd still buy a pair. simply because breaking into a raw pair of jeans is an experience in itself!
i have always been told that raw denim fades better, and molds to your body better. i can't back that up myself as the IH-634S-RAW is my first pair of raw denim jeans, and i have just started wearing it.
either way, it's like comparing apples with oranges. neither is better than the other. least not in my opinion anyway.
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@adam313:
Bring it! Whatever happens, its likely that everybody will now be a bit more informed about sanforized and unsanforized denim, and that was the point. My flame retardant suit says Iron Heart all over it…
Just curious, how much research have you done on this topic and where is your information coming from?
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Loomstate and sanforized are different beasts, each with their own advantages and disadvantages. I like the look and feel of loomstate more so than sanforized, but the 21oz flagship IH denim is pretty nice too. I'd think Kiya would have some insight into the durability of each. Since he sells both types of denim why would he have any reason to make unfounded claims either way.
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Just curious, how much research have you done on this topic and where is your information coming from?
I didn't care about the tensile and tearing strengths of raw denim until you said that Iron Heart's 23oz denim lasts longer than other denim garments, eventhough this has not been mentioned with the release of other sanforized jeans you have purchased. Having been privileged enough to visit the manufacturers, you should have better access to these numbers than I. All I have to go from is the internet and my personal experience with 6 pairs of sanforized raw denim, 15 pairs of sanforized pre-washed denim, and 2 pairs of unsanforized raw denim.
My sources specifically so far:
http://info.fabrics.net/sanforized-fabrics-best-friend/
http://www.sanforized.biz/e_what.htm
http://tritex.com/upload/pdf_000_388/DenimWetProcessing.pdf
http://fyichina.com.cn/comparative%20analysis%20of%20tear.pdfhttp://oecotextiles.wordpress.com/category/textile/abrasion/
http://www.astm.org/Standards/D6554.htm
Let's see yours…
