Former Forum Member Georg
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I wrote the following before action was taken to remove forum member Georg from the forum on the grounds of harassing forum members via PM, and making offensive and unfounded allegations about their political, religious and social views. I am sharing it here to publicly remind all forum members that this a clothing and social forum, not a place to discuss potentially inflammatory topics, there are plenty of other places to do that if that is what you are looking for.
Georg sent me a message a few weeks ago complaining about Seul mentioning the holocaust in a post, I know Seul well and I know that his views are far from right wing and also that his sense of humour (very much like mine) is not always to everyones taste. At the time I took the decision to remove Seuls post as I could see how people could take offence.
Early this morning I received the following message from George in reference to some imagery used on some of the new Iron Heart stickers and also in reference to another recent user ban against someone who carried out the exact same actions as Georg, we strongly suspect that they are the same person using different accounts. I also received messages from a couple of other forum members that Georg (or whichever user name he was using at the time) had "taken them to task" via PM over what he perceived their views to be on certain issues. We discussed this as a moderator team and the decision was taken to remove Georg from the member list, we do not tolerate harassment of members on the grounds of political or religious views.
The following PM was sent to me this morning by Georg, and what follows is my response.
Some days ago I had to inform you about Nazi-statements by user Seul. You wrote me that he is not at all that and nothing happened. But with other user for really nothing the ban forever comes within minutes. I see here the acceptance of Neo-Nazis like Seul or some Germans. And it looks more and more clear that Giles and his enviroment are supporting this way. Many statements are ignoring any respect, only for their stupid statements they have a great understanding. Also some IH-marketing tools with the Japanese flag which were use as symbol to kill millions of people shows how far the acceptance is. I am sure that one day this will be discussed in the media. And who knows what is the background of Giles and his Nazi-fellows?
You can ban me. I will not more hereHi Georg,
Thank you for your message. I can assure you that neither Iron Heart nor Giles support National Socialism or any other political ethos, Iron Heart is a clothing brand and Giles is a personal friend of mine, and I do not associate with Nazis.
The flag to which you refer was the flag of the Imperial Japanese navy prior to World War 2, just as Stars and Stripes was the flag of the United States prior to the attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, which also killed millions. The flag is not associated with anything "Nazi", as Japan was not and never has been subject to a national socialist government, and at the time of WWII it was in fact a constitutional monarchy ruled by an Emperor and administrated by a military government. I think that it is also fair to point to make that the flag you refer to has been used time after time by brands such as Santa Cruz Skateboards and O'Neill surf wear….neither of which are Nazi sympathizers to my knowledge.
You must also appreciate that to many Muslims the Cross Of St George (national flag of England) causes huge racial offence due to the Crusades, where millions of Muslims were killed in the name of Christianity, should we also ban this flag and question it's imagery as a symbol of war and massacre? History does not begin and end when we want it to unfortunately. The same can be applied to the Stars and Stripes when applied to the nuclear attacks on Japan and the military campaigns in the Middle East. I am stating no opinion on what I agree or disagree with on these views because I am only here to discuss denim, and have a social interaction with people who share similar interests.
The forum member you spoke to me about, Seul, is a staunch left wing punk. His political views are about as far from the right as you can get as he has also expressed on this forum on many, many occasions also with rebuke from the mod team. You have to understand that Seul is a long term member of this community, we know him well and have years of relationship history with him. This gives us familiarity with his motivations and humour, which is far more reliable than a user who joins the forum and very quickly starts using offensive behaviour, some of which you should be totally unaware of and I will not share out of respect for others privacy. Suffice to say that no one is banned from this forum without an extremely good reason and without any political motivation.
This is a social forum based around a clothing brand, we are not here to debate religion, politics or any other inflammatory subject, there are many forums all over the internet dedicated to exactly that, this is not one of them. The forum rules clearly state that debating these topics is not allowed, if a user flaunts this they are warned and their posts deleted, if this continues after being warned then the user will be banned. We also do not tolerate unsolicited harassment of members via the private message system, this is another sure way to find yourself banned.
The decision has now been taken to remove you from the forum also based on the aspersions you have made against this brand and community, which are grossly incorrect and have no basis in fact. I sincerely hope that you will realise this and reconsider them.
Thank you,
GavinThis thread will remain open only for a short time, but if you have pertinent comments to add or points to raise please do so here.
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Many thanks @Megatron1505 - we appreciate the time and care you have taken.
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No problem guys, this kind of thing really rattles my cage.
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@sabergirl Those were not hasty judgements. This guy has now joined the forum 4 times. He may be deranged but he certainly knows what he is doing….
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Love you Gav. ::)
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Well done Gav. That was a very thoughtful response and hit the nail in the head.
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I really should lay off ze German jokes… I do love 'm!.. Just wished they didn't visit so often!..
(I'm sorry...)
PS: me, a neo-nazi ?.. What the hell has that guy been sniffing?.. I mean I've been told a great many of things in my career (of being alive), but that one takes the cake…
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As Stephen Fry said, you're offended? So fucking what.
Misappropriation of imagery is and has been a common and timeless methodology for all types of groups. Christianity flourished through the integration of pagan customs, stories and practices. The Nazis plundered many icons and images including Buddhist iconography. The fact that an extremist group can monopolise and forever be associated with a once benign representation is probably a conversation for another good long day but….as Megatron said, this site is about clothing and denim.
Anyway, good call and a well measured and stoically reasoned response. Kudos.
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I just figured it was the shaved head. Guys who shave their heads are all assholes.
Like this jerk:
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Superbly executed response Mega!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Apt response Mega . Had no idea this was going on . As you said , there are plenty of other forums for political, religious and other wildly polarizing topics .
Seul , I thought of you as the "next to window poser " , with a peculiar fondness for pigs , in the WAYWT threads - not the Neo-Nazi mental case !
