Revisiting Old Classics - Should We/Shouldn't We?
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Quote from a few days back, my last post here. G and H will do whatever they think is right and I'll accept it.
I will never understand that collector's snobism
When I've met the first person wearing any shirt I own outside a denim shop I might change my mind, but until then, I have no problem with 10 other people in my country owning the same stuff as I do.Also, the SH20 hype shows, that an original design will always have a certain mojo.
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If you re-run the black 51 I am cool with it. If you release something similar (black heavy flannel) I am cool with it too.
It´s a business and Giles needs something to eat (and drink and smoke). -
I have to echo the sentiments of quite a few people on here. I think a rerun of particular garments is a really good thing for both customers who weren't privy to the brand when the first run was released, or are kicking themselves for not pulling the trigger when the first run came out.
The colors don't necessarily have to be the same, maybe the cut is more in line with the newer pieces, and the name doesn't need to be the same (ex. IH-20V2).
It also avoids the secondary market markup a bit which I view as similar to ticket scalping. Full disclosure, I have paid out the nose for a Mister Freedom Midnight CPO…. Was it worth it? Yes, because it was my absolute grail piece. Would I have paid what I did if I knew there was going to be a re-run? No chance.
I love having clothes that are less than common or tough to borderline impossible to find but I really don't think re-runs would impact how often people are seeing IH around their neck of the woods. I didn't buy the IHSH-131 solely because Giles said only 35 were made..... I would have bought it regardless, and I could really care less if IH decided to make more of them. Do I think it's cool to know I'm one of 35 people in the world to own the shirt? Sure. But if IH decided to make another run I wouldn't feel any different about the shirt and I still doubt I would see another one roaming around where I live.
Not to mention a re-run on a shirt a lot of people talk about wanting seems like a pretty great business decision from IH's perspective.
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I just want to comment out of left field that it's extraordinary to have a forum like this where we can all voice our opinion and be confident that it is being heard and considered by the brand. Whether or not it actually influences anything is incidental, it just is wild to be in the position to be able to comment on the fits and patterns that my favorite brand produces, and feel like my opinion might matter. Crazy.
That said, I know I don't care one way or t'other if the classics are re-issued. If they are, great, easy to grab if I have the dough. If they aren't, then I'll scoop one up if it comes out on the secondhand market. I will probably try to figure out a way to get my faves regardless, and if it doesn't happen to be an old pattern, there's plenty of new fire getting produced, so why worry?
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Is a new iteration the same as a first edition - obviously not.
It is simply a new iteration.
You need the first edition then you seek it out.
You want the new iteration of the original then here you go. -
thats like putting any picture of 2 IHSH beside one another with the same caption.
For me, its when talking about extinct and extant items. One of the hugest appeals to me for iron heart has always been this distinction they have had. For me personally , when i see extant on an item, its of little interest to me as i feel i can get it any time, on the new or second hand market for years to come. i have been very interested in items that have been under development but loose interest if i think it will be around a long time. i.e. extant
from when i got interested in IH at the start, there was always that distinction in place that when a flannel sold out and people asked if there would be more. the answer was always no more, will not re-run. it is extinct. that is a large reason why i love the flannels, as this product more than any has always had this distinction. thats part of that appeal to the flannels and i believe why they sell out so fast at times. its this limited number and feeling that people may miss out. if items are continually being released in the same color way why have an extinct distinction at all. i know personally if i thought the pattern would be released again in a few years i most likely would not purchase in the first place, however with the one time possibility of getting the flannel, I am much more likely to purchase.
but this is just my take. it would be nice to know if an item is truly going to be extinct or not, as that will hugely determine my interest in a piece or not.
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I think that only being interested in something because of the fact that it may sell out is ridiculous… you should like it based on the merits of the product. I've never been a fan of having to compete to give someone my money - one of the reasons I'm not down for a lot of Roy releases.
Preach @thewickett , I'm with you…
Mainly about the reruns, I just want them to be actually rerun! Talking about how the new 20's (I think they were supposed to be reruns of the 20?) had smaller checks than the originals.
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@bushmonkey - So for you, it's about the unobtainable and the chase and less about the actual item quality and aesthetic
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I think that only being interested in something because of the fact that it may sell out is ridiculous… you should like it based on the merits of the product. I've never been a fan of having to compete to give someone my money - one of the reasons I'm not down for a lot of Roy releases.
Preach @thewickett , I'm with you…
Mainly about the reruns, I just want them to be actually rerun! Talking about how the new 20's (I think they were supposed to be reruns of the 20?) had smaller checks than the originals.
I'm with you on this @grandmasterben
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i base my interest on the pattern and product and if it appeals to me (i already know that the IH product is good and a cut that works for me). then on the availability of an item. i am not ashamed to admit that i like items that are harder to get (i.e. smaller production runs) and feel there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. i work hard for my $.
its not an interest on whether an item item will sell out or not. there have been many patterns i have purchased that went into the sale section and were not popular at all.
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No, it is actually like putting the 20 next to the 109 or 127. I saw it that way at least. And since you have the opportunity to get gear directly from Japan, that makes it even easier to acquire rare items. You are much more diligent in tracking those grails down than me. (Rephrased for proper tone)
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and yes. i will admit i have loved the chase of old items. very rewarding finding some old gem. have made some super cool contacts over the years in NA and Japan because of this. But this is all subjective. A lot of my old gems have stories associated with them in the hunt and part of what makes certain items special to me.
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I get your sentiment @bushmonkey as I would love to have a literary first edition or an original by a fine art artist, I just need to be "in love" with their work first and not with their elusive unattainability..
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I'm rather glad this gets so many of us worked up. It speaks to the significance of the brand and the quality of the goods.
I don't mind either way. Many awesome fabrics have had less than ideal measurements or unnecessary logos, patches, or embroidery. Several others have fallen under the radar and vanished. I only have a handful of IH goods, and I can only afford a few purchases a year, so I am happy to have what I have. As it stands, I have only purchased one item, an ihsh-100, from Japan, and the rest have been bought from IH, Self-edge, or Rivet & Hide. If they can make enough money selling the popular items to commission new fabrics then I'm all for it. Most of my favorite items were collaborations or Giles' commissions anyway. Keep the good stuff coming.
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There will always be those with the "super"-collector mentality. However, they do not, I feel, represent the norm.
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good analogy BO. its rather funny my first IH shirt was a 49 and remember thinking, holy sh.t I'm spending this much $ on a shirt. I got it and was "wow". I guess that was worth it. I had yet to purchase a flannel as i still thought, "what, that much $ for a shirt, its just a flannel". i was fortunate to grab a used one from one of the original members and once again upon receiving was blown away. (it was a black 32) After that i was hooked. The fit was perfect and the overbuilt ruggedness works with my lifestyle. So really, i fell in love the brand, and slowly started to grab pieces that really appealed to me. I will admit as adam said I have been very fortunate in my hunts, but also in connecting with several people that helped me in my searches. So while i do have many pieces that are elusive, i have still parted with many pieces (just as elusive) because they do not "call" out to me. So its not just about the elusiveness of an item or having extinct items.
As I originally said, this is a great topic of discussion and one I am finding hard to articulate.
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nice thread idea @Finn666
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In the end, I'd prefer to see H and crew foster new creations as opposed to re-running the classics. Most buyers are fickle creatures and want what they can't have which is a huge part of the draw of the classics. If new versions of classics are reproduced and readily available, I believe you'd see a lot of buyers sit on the fence.
Edit: The best example I can think of is the Swedish Serge vest. A few guys were able to get their hands on them years ago and the forum was going apeshit. G got a shipment in stock and a good spread of sizes ended up on special.
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@bushmonkey's first 49 (he was a genius and got two) is one of my all time favorite evo's. Thank you BM! And your 705 pics convinced me to get my pair, so I am super grateful. Thanks for participating in this conversation as you probably have one of the most stacked wardrobes around. This is a challenging topic to properly articulate, no doubt.
