Runners
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@Nkwkfld:
Trying to decide on a good plan for this 100k in July http://www.serpenttrailrace.com/100k
But also am doing a 70.3 Ironman in September so want to keep swimming and biking.
This plan looks nice, but thinking of keeping the weekend long runs and subbing a couple midweek runs for bike and adding in a swim or two on rest days. Then after the 100k adjusting the plan to a tri focus.
That looks a good plan!
I’ve run a bunch of ultramarathons (30+ I think, including 5x100 milers) and my training is always along these lines
Tip - slower is always better in training, takes some practice
Good luck!
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@Nkwkfld:
@Giles That swim is awesome. I think there is a difference, in that most running plans won't have you doing the full distance in training. My guess is that this has to do with impact. For a lot of runners, the hard part of training is going too fast and doing too much distance/volume, and then you have to stop because of injury.
@AdamC cool that you have a spot in London. Good luck with the training you've got plenty of time. I'm on the ballot again but I think lots of others are too.
^Yep. Training for just about anything over a marathon in distance means not actually ever running the race distance beforehand. If you're racing a 50K you might touch that distance in training. Massive weekly volume is super important though. So long as you are adapting your body to handle the load and the energy/fueling requirements you will be good.
Triathlon is similar. You will never see an elite training for an ironman actually do an ironman in training. That amount of stress is far too great to include in a training block without serious risk of injury or overtraining.
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I am not a runner but I am finding this conversation interesting. For cycling (and maybe rowing), a good way to train is with power zones, where you have a power meter on a bike and specifically target wattage ranges (power zones) that are periodically re-set according to your current level of fitness. So your lower zones are used to target aerobic areas and endurance, where the higher zones are to target anaerobic performance and power. I wonder if there is a similar model for running. What I love about it aside from the precision of targeting exactly where you want to improve is how empirical it is, you maintain a "Functional Threshold Power" figure that you periodically test, and your zones are all based on that. So you can see how you ebb and flow, ultimately hopefully trending up. My goal this year is to add 20 points to my FTP (I don't even know if that's a low or high goal but it sounds good :D).
I don't know how running would map to ourput, but in terms of exertion and the balance between aerobic/anaerobic engagement, suppose the kind of running we're talking about here would focus on zones 1-3. That is my primary focus too, as I am trying to build my cardiovascular base before I focus on "neuromuscular power." Even if there is no way to do power zone training with running, I think it would benefit runners to do it on a bike. It is hard to overtrain in PZ training, which is a benefit–easy on your body but with significant, dialed-in gains.
I think the table "Expected Physiological and Performance Adaptations Resulting From Training in Zones 1-7" in the link above is a good way of understanding what the power zones do.
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@Nkwkfld – I happen to have a running coach who's based in Chicago. His name is Wes Judd and is working with North Coast Running now. I've been able to run nearly injury free the last couple of years while working with him all the while averaging 45-55 miles/week. While I've yet to do a marathon (that's on tap soon then an ultra later this year), I respect his guidance and appreciate having less guesswork in what I need to do. As someone who overtrains, I need a lot of help.
No matter what course you choose, stoked to hear about your process!!! 100k is no joke.
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@mclaincausey easiest way to determine zones in running would be based on HR. As long as you know your max HR you can determine a good zone for aerobic work (i.e. middle to long runs) and anaerobic work (i.e. intervals). Same goes for Cycling, but having a PM also makes things much more beneficial in terms of tracking fitness progression. With running it's also much easier to run in a zone based on pace whereas cycling the number of external factors play a much bigger role (when you run downhill if you hold the same pace your HR will drop a bit. When going downhill in cycling you can literally do nothing and double your speed).
In terms of FTP compared to running the best comparison would be to do an aerobic threshold run on the same course or treadmill where you are basically going as fast as you can for maybe 25 - 30 minutes without going anaerobic. It's not exactly like an FTP test because you're not going all out or until failure like some FTP tests have you do, but it is a similarly good indicator of fitness.
Side note, while a high FTP is fun to work toward it is not necessarily indicative of how good a cyclist you are. It basically just means you are good at time trials and have a big aerobic engine. Having really strong repeatability at over threshold wattages is massive in cycling, as is having big 1-2 minute power. A big FTP doesn't do much for a racer if they don't have the bigger 2-5 minute power to establish the gap before settling into a big aerobic output.
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Any recs for someone looking to get into distance running? (marathons, ultramarathons) I have done a bunch of 5ks and ran of the better part of the last 10 years. Furthest distance is around 10 miles. I know the typical just put in the miles but any small detailed things I should consider? @Nkwkfld @Brock @cander49
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I'm following along to see what answers you get — I'm sort of in the same boat. I run 3-4 times a week but usually keep it btw 3-5 miles, wouldn't mind dipping my toes in a little more distance.
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Any recs for someone looking to get into distance running? (marathons, ultramarathons) I have done a bunch of 5ks and ran of the better part of the last 10 years. Furthest distance is around 10 miles. I know the typical just put in the miles but any small detailed things I should consider? @Nkwkfld @Brock @cander49
I would say for your first marathon take a look at a beginner program. Lots are on line, some good podcasts too. Trail runner nation, ultra runner podcast, ten junk miles etc.
I started out overweight and just ran a mile at a time. Taking my time building mileage up. Never more than 20% more than the week before. That’s a good rule of thumb to keep healthy.
I ran my first marathon 12 years ago and after that caught the bug bug time… did 30 marathons, 12-50k’s, 8-50m and a 100k and 100M. I was definitely in better shape when I did road races vs trail races. It’s just different on the trails. My road marathon pr is 3:42 not fast but still pretty good. I’m also “Marathon Manic” they are a group with requirements for levels for finishing more over a year.
I think the thing that helped me with ultras was always being in shape to drop in a marathon. Not fast but able to finish. Lots of times a road marathon was a good long training run before an ultra.
The first 50k I did was in Iceland and I was pretty sure I was going to die[emoji23] it’s really sweet and I’ve wanted to do it again at some point. It’s on the Landmanalagur trail. I’m sure I spelled that wrong but it’s a point to point race over the highlands of Iceland. So much fun! That’s what ultras are all about the amazing views and some good suffering at the same time.
If you can finish a road marathon a 50k is totally do able. Before I did the 100k and 100M I would try to do at least 50M 3 weeks to month out as the last long run. Always have the last long run a few weeks before the race Gives time to still recover, and taper…
Weekly volume is really important. I break my schedule down like this. A long run on Sunday usually 12-20 miles. Then during the week runs are usually 6miles 3 or 4 times. Try to keep 30-50MPW and still getting a few days off. I was pretty good at getting races done on sorta low mileage. Some people need more some need less..
New shoes are expensive but very important also. Have a few pairs with different mileage but I usually retire around 400 miles.
Sorry to ramble[emoji23] hopefully that’s some help. Anything else feel free to ask.
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Good lord that sounds impressive!
Reading that just made me feel like an anthropomorphic pepperoni pizza
I'll start with the 20% increments…
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Any recs for someone looking to get into distance running? (marathons, ultramarathons) I have done a bunch of 5ks and ran of the better part of the last 10 years. Furthest distance is around 10 miles. I know the typical just put in the miles but any small detailed things I should consider? @Nkwkfld @Brock @cander49
@atm23 – Sounds like @kkibbey23 has quite a lot more experience than me but that's yet to stop me from sharing my POV. I have a run coach which makes things far easier. I really like the structured way he has it set up and I don't have to think all that much about my nutrition, regimen, or volume. I have a marathon coming up in mid-April and he's getting my training program dialed. We start next week. Stoked af.
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My advice is to keep it fun. Run with others, avoid injury caused by overtraining, join strava, get a cool watch and shoes, and sign up for events, get a coach, anything that sounds good to you and that makes the activity a normal part of life.
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@Nkwkfld:
My advice is to keep it fun.
All of that but esp this.
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Yep, that’s always been my approach. I’d like to get a little longer distance going but keeping it fun and enjoyable (and of course healthy) is always the main goal. I do think overtraining has gotten in my way a bit, as I get sort of addicted to the activity (hello, personality!) and go too many days in a row, burning myself out a bit and hurting my progress. Learning a lot of valuable info about that aspect of it here, so thank y’all for that.
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@kkibbey23 Thanks so much for the great advice! I'm starting this week!
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@kkibbey23 Thanks so much for the great advice! I'm starting this week!
Nice!! Any time
feel free to pm me if you have any more specific stuff. The ultra world is so much fun. You will really like it I’m sure -
A slow volume build is definitely key as it seriously minimizes overuse injury. In my opinion it's best to be getting a run in at a minimum 5 days a week to build that callous. More than a day or two off in a row and the body starts noticeably losing some fitness. Breaking down weekly mileage goals/increases into small progressions and making an effort to have at least one longer run included weekly is definitely important if you're moving up to HM and Marathon distance.
The nice thing is it's a very basic sport equipment wise so all you need to pay attention to is your shoes. Depending on your mechanics you may be able to get away with wearing just about anything without issue or you may need to be really careful about the shoe you pick. Don't be afraid to try a lot of different models and brands.
I traded in my running shoes for cycling shoes a few years ago but had spent the prior 15ish years running obscene amounts, and obsessively at that, while racing collegiately and semi-pro post college. Like others have said, keeping it fun is the number 1 most important thing. Running is a meat grinder, but there is no better bang for your buck exercise wise, and it is unbelievably satisfying. I still miss it sometimes but can also attest to how hard it can be on the body if you are really redlining what your body is able to manage, and that mentally can be brutal when injuries creep in. So keep it fun!
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Just finished this week with 18 miles. Looking to do 22 miles this week.
Got these to decrease the strain on the muscles and knees. They feel pretty good so far.
https://www.cepcompression.com/collections/mens-compression-calf-sleeves/products/mens-calf-sleeves-3-0 -
Right on, @atm23
Which plan you go with? -
It's a custom I made using Excel. Ive referenced a few programs but right now its pretty much a 20% increase each week.
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Cool, hope that works out. I did 13 mile runs on Saturday and Sunday this weekend to get a feel for putting more miles on the legs and it went well. The plans I have been looking at recommend that, probably to get used to running on tired legs.
