Coronavirus (Covid-19) Discussion
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A person deciding not to get a COVID vaccine, regardless of ones reason for choosing not to, puts all of those around them at risk. There is no single or combination of concerns against being vaccinated that outweigh the benefits of being vaccinated. It is ultimately a careless, selfish, and inconsiderate decision that not only impacts the individual but all of those they come into contact with, and ultimately all of society.
No one should ever be sorry for passing judgement on an individual that makes such a harmful decision.
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Well said, @BloodnThunder. I considered a few much less thoughtful ways to say it, and am glad you said it better.
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I've seen too many of my patients dying of COVID, being ventilated on ICU or suffering from long-COVID to find this whole discussion anything but tedious.
And you know what? The virus will stay, and those not willing to be vaccinated will catch it one day, sooner or later. Then just pray you will not have a severe course, or an energetic and still dedicated team of docs and nurses.
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There is a discussion, I think in many countries, wether medical staff shouldn't be forced to get vaccinated. So no choice for them then? What do you guys prefer if you go to your doctor, dentist or dental hygienist? Jabbed or anti-vax? Think of it. You get very close to them, no?
By the way the major risk getting infected is not with the patient but with us. The patients aerosol produced during a dental treatment is the most contagious fluid we have. Do we have a choice? No! I can not refuse to treat a patient with pain coming to my office for not being vaccinated.
Same at the hospital… haven't you heard about all those nurses, doctors, staff getting infected by patients....
Do you guys know why we had decades without any major outbrakes of plagues? Diphteria, pertussis, polio, mmr aso? Most of the people in the countries we live were jabbed as children and the others who refused benifited from the resulting herd immunity.
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https://enewspaper.nydailynews.com/infinity/article_share.aspx?guid=59f87423-6205-4abb-8592-0a0f0fb137d8 Thought this would be interesting.
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This is one of the first books I remember reading with my parents when I was a kid (my mom was a nurse). Maybe we could have stuck with this imagery/explanation and made the connection from the vaccine to 2nd amendment rights?
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If it’s good enough for the King —
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I have to admit I’m a bit of a centrist in terms of covid protocol. Doesn’t it seem like we’ve let everyone know why it’s important to get vaccinated? It seems like (at least where I live) most people that are willing to get vaxxed already have and the rest are screaming no. This might sound morbid, but what if we opened everything back up and they dealt with their actions? Maybe that view is more libertarian than centrist, like my view on motorcycle helmet laws. Either way, the fighting doesn’t seem to help anything, just more division
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I have to admit I’m a bit of a centrist in terms of covid protocol. Doesn’t it seem like we’ve let everyone know why it’s important to get vaccinated? It seems like (at least where I live) most people that are willing to get vaxxed already have and the rest are screaming no. This might sound morbid, but what if we opened everything back up and they dealt with their actions? Maybe that view is more libertarian than centrist, like my view on motorcycle helmet laws. Either way, the fighting doesn’t seem to help anything, just more division
I would totally agree if it would only affect them… but:
With the virus ciruculating among a non-vaccinated group of people there is a higher risk for mutations that might lead to a reduced immunity of the vaccines we have atm...
Viruliferous people especially with no symptoms are a risk for people that can't get vaccinated...
Being vaccinated doesn't meen you are 100% safe, especially people with other chronic diseases can still get severely ill...
Even with a mild course there is a risk for long-term health effects... -
Sometimes I wonder what these discussions would be like if it were our kids that are dying by the thousands. I feel like this crisis highlights the „value“ of the elderly and vulnerable groups within our societies. When first data showed that mostly very old people were at risk, I felt somewhat reliefed for myself and my little family. Now my selfish thoughts make me sad.
I hope this will be over soon and our kids don‘t have to grow up worrying about social distancing or losing their parents/ grandparents to a virus. Let‘s not allow this fucking thing to mutate further and further.
Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk
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It is very sad, @HighOnFire . And when you are placed in the unfortunate circumstance of having to ration healthcare (e.g., when you're overwhelmed by COVID patients and don't have enough ventilators to go around), those decisions are based on the estimated number of years left in an individual's life. That's the only equitable way to make such a difficult decision, but that does not translate into elderly lives being valueless and expendable. If we all do our part, we can minimize those difficult decisions and their impact on the ill and their families, and their caretakers and their families.
We have become so heartless and selfish, and/or perhaps simply lack the imagination to think about how our actions can create situations where grandchildren cannot say goodbye to their beloved grandparents as they suffocate to death in an ICU with–if they're "lucky"--a complete stranger holding their hand.
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I closely align with you on this @cwcaswell until I think of the points made by @Chap. I have to say that I'm not led there by any sort of altruism or thinking of the better good. Nay, my folks are older (68 and 73) and have a lot of health issues. I want increased vaccination not because I believe in the vaccine but because I'd personally scalp the person who infected my folks and killed them.
I feel passionately about change when it affects me or my community directly. I don't think that it's natural for humans to be able to care for the well-being of all communities or far-off communities. How can we if we don't know them? Part of what I like about this forum is that I'm conversing with people not in my direct community which increases my awareness of others and thereby my level of concern for communities other than my own.
Sorry to let my inner philosophy major out there…
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I saw I very succinct and well put post today:
"kids sacrificed 16+ months of their childhood, 2 school years of normalcy, mostly to protect adults from a virus that they're now choosing NOT to get vaccinated against, making kids who can't vax more vulnerable & holding everyone hostage"
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Quod. Erat. Demonstrandum.
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It would appear our highly touted "vaccines" may be no more than glorified antivirals…
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It would appear our highly touted "vaccines" may be no more than glorified antivirals…
No one has claimed the vaccine is an impenetrable force field, and not being one does not make it a "vaccine." We only THINK vaccines work that way because, once available, past-people promptly got the vaccine in sufficient numbers to stop widespread transmission. It's extremely early to start making declarations of failure ESPECIALLY when we have a large unvaccinated population. Again, vaccine efficacy is not measured by the outcomes of a single person, but on a whole population, and thus vaccination rate is a critial factor. Media outlets need clicks, and will phrase things as histrionically as possible to get them, this is known. It's up to us to use our "highly touted" frontal cortexes if we want to live in an organized society.
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I think this is a very important article to read. Society has done a great job of hiding away ugliness, from spiriting away our sewage and trash, up to making sure we never see dead bodies. This guy no longer has a job (I assume, you Brits can correct me if not):
Makes it easy to pretend these things aren't really going on, but they are. The story is an ICU doctor's take on what's going on. 18 months of fatigue in an 8 minute read.
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Welcome to the cool club
