Random questions to which you seek an answer

[popvulture]

I recently started a pair of 634XHS, and I noticed that the fly no longer has selvedge detail on the inside. After looking elsewhere, I also saw that the rear pockets are no longer lined. Both of these details were also missing on a pair of 21OD I bought earlier this year (a pair of SBG still had them).

Given IH’s tendency to put so much stake in the overbuilt theme, I was really surprised to see these features removed. I don’t remember seeing this discussed anywhere, but I might have just missed jt. Anyway, I’m mainly just wondering — what’s the story here? My biggest hope would be that this isn’t a permanent change.

[Alex]

@popvulture the product would have been correct at the time of your purchase, though, I hope? Sometimes, run to run, things change that are not requested by us, so we (try to) update the product pages every time we get a restock to ensure their continued veracity. We wouldn't necessarily flag it anywhere else.

It certainly was not a requested update from past models, its more likely to be a factory fuck up, but it's not the sort of thing that would make us reject a batch of hundred of jeans and ask for them to be remade for, I am afraid.

[popvulture]

@Alex thank you!

I didn't check the specs at the times of purchase, but I did go back when I noticed and saw that they were updated. I also saw that the specs are updated on the IH Japan site, with a pic of the different flatlock fly detail on the XHS.

I know there have been all kinds of production woes as you've mentioned recently, so I figured this could relate to those. I appreciate the insight.

[Alex]

@popvulture said in Random questions to which you seek an answer:

I didn't check the specs at the times of purchase, but I did go back when I noticed and saw that they were updated. I also saw that the specs are updated on the IH Japan site, with a pic of the different flatlock fly detail on the XHS.

Yeah - we are not perfect, clearly, but we have a meeting the day after every delivery and literally cross check every detail in the bullet points of every restocking product to assess what needs to be rewritten or rephotographed to try and ensure things are accurate at the time of purchase.

[popvulture]

@Alex I hear ya, man — I always appreciate the huge attention to detail IH UK puts in, and I saw this issue as being more on the Japan end of things. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this isn't a long term change they decided to make, as they're details I'd hate to see disappear.

[Mizmazzle]

@popvulture totally agree with this!

[Alex]

@popvulture said in Random questions to which you seek an answer:

@Alex I hear ya, man — I always appreciate the huge attention to detail IH UK puts in, and I saw this issue as being more on the Japan end of things. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this isn't a long term change they decided to make, as they're details I'd hate to see disappear.

I understand what you're saying, when I say that it was an issue with the factory, I mean with the third party factory, not WORKS INC. It likely would have come as a surprise to Haraki too. If it was a planned long term change by WORKS, we would have been informed.

[popvulture]

@Alex ahhh ok I see! Thank you for clarifying that

[pechelman]

@popvulture said in Random questions to which you seek an answer:

also saw that the rear pockets are no longer lined.

thought i recalled someone asking something like this a while ago and the answer was something like that the original / early runs of this forgot to include the lined pocket detail and the spec to the factory never got updated on repeat runs. So maybe it's not that it was missing but maybe it was never there to start? Similar to how some (or all?) of the UHR's include copper buttons because Gile's was on a copper kick at the time and then it never got updated, so that's how the factory builds them.

[Mister_Brue]

@pechelman said in Random questions to which you seek an answer:

Giles was on a copper kick at the time.

Brilliant!

[Alex]

@pechelman said in Random questions to which you seek an answer:

@popvulture said in Random questions to which you seek an answer:

also saw that the rear pockets are no longer lined.

thought i recalled someone asking something like this a while ago and the answer was something like that the original / early runs of this forgot to include the lined pocket detail and the spec to the factory never got updated on repeat runs. So maybe it's not that it was missing but maybe it was never there to start? Similar to how some (or all?) of the UHR's include copper buttons because Gile's was on a copper kick at the time and then it never got updated, so that's how the factory builds them.

Quite possibly, my memory only goes back to when I started working at IH, but the general point remains that time to time, the factory fucks up and things change. Chainstitch run off on work shirts being present then missing run to run, would be an obvious example

[popvulture]

@pechelman yesterday when I was fishing around, I did see something from way back that indicated the earliest 634XHS having unlined pockets, but as far as I know they eventually became a regular feature.

[pechelman]

@popvulture ah, yea, found what i had remembered as well

https://www.ironheart.co.uk/forum//post/806525
and
https://www.ironheart.co.uk/forum//post/599677

[popvulture]

Haha I could be totally wrong about them becoming regular features, based both on that previous bit of info from Giles and from what I'm seeing at a few retailers. Selvedge fly and lined pockets are often listed as features, but then there will be a pic of the fly and it's flatlock instead of selvedge (Division Road and R&H, for example). This seems to be the case with some 634XHS and 21oz. Obviously you can't see whether or not the pockets are lined in the pics.

Whatever the case, It really could be one of those things that, like Giles said, made it in for some models but has yet to happen in others. I guess the biggest lesson is that it's always good for me to double check the specs and know what I'm getting.

[steelworker]

@Kingmob31 I believe the crew measures every restock so the size is correct.

[Nik]

@popvulture I have a vague memory of trying on the anniversary 634's from a few years ago and being surprised about the lockstitch rather than selvedge fly as I was used to the selvedge fly from the 888, and I feel like @Giles or @Graham told me that 634 was developed with lockstitch fly and then with the other cuts came up with the idea of the selvedge fly. And then because Haraki feels that the design of the 634 was made that way it should stay that way. So the different fly is an expression of design uniqueness of the certain cut. Could be remembering this incorrectly. Also sounds like some of your 634's do have selvedge fly?

[Giles]

@popvulture said in Random questions to which you seek an answer:

I recently started a pair of 634XHS, and I noticed that the fly no longer has selvedge detail on the inside. After looking elsewhere, I also saw that the rear pockets are no longer lined. Both of these details were also missing on a pair of 21OD I bought earlier this year (a pair of SBG still had them).

Given IH’s tendency to put so much stake in the overbuilt theme, I was really surprised to see these features removed. I don’t remember seeing this discussed anywhere, but I might have just missed jt. Anyway, I’m mainly just wondering — what’s the story here? My biggest hope would be that this isn’t a permanent change.

Did they ever have those features to be removed?

Selvedge fly and lined rear pockets were never a thing until I specced the original IH-666S.

When we made the original runs on 634 and 666 XHS, the base models from which we derived the XHS versions, were the IH-634S (which did not have selvedge fly or lined rear pockets) and the IH-666S (which did have selvedge fly and lined rear pockets), those characteristics carried over to the XHS versions.

All versions of 555, 666, 777 and 888 should have selvedge fly and lined rear pockets because the base models that I specced would have had them. The 634 is the exception.

I did try and get those features incorporated into every jean we made, but I guess there are some models that never got updated....

The IH-1955 has lined rear pockets but not a selvedge fly because I forgot to spec it, and then did not notice on the first sample it was missing.

[popvulture]

Much appreciated, @Giles — that all makes perfect sense. Also cool to know a little more of the history.

[popvulture]

@Nik yep, that all tracks now. I wondered about the possibility of Haraki wanting to keep the 634 original spec, which would definitely be logical. To answer your question about other 634 though, yes — all the others aside from XHS and 21oz (plus their overdyed variants like regular OD and Mad Black) seem to have the lined pockets and selvedge fly.

[Alex]

@Giles said in Random questions to which you seek an answer:

The IH-1955 has lined rear pockets but not a selvedge fly because I forgot to spec it, and then did not notice on the first sample it was missing.

I only found out recently that the reason some of our jeans don't have flashers is because @Giles forgot to specifically request them when he did the first run, he just assumed saying 'all details the same as IH-634S except fit like sample xyz was enough (as I would have done) but apparently not. Now we are so far down the line, we are not allowed to add them retroactivley as it would 'confuse the factory'