Watches - another OCD problem
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@popvulture – This is my daily:
It's a 1972 Datejust (ref. 1601) and I just love the size of it. I was inspired to get it because my father had a contemporary Datejust when I was growing up and I loved it/anything my father was into. This is what he currently has and I want to steal it from him:
It's a 1980 Datejust Oysterquartz (ref. 17000) and the bracelet is just … wow.
I generally like smaller watches although, were I in a position to do so, I'd snag a Rolex Submariner Date (ref. 1680 most likely). As it is, I'm trying to find contentment with what I have rather than yearning for what I can't have!
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Dude I love Rolexes — those are both beautiful! I'd totally have a Submariner or an Oyster Perpetual Datejust. Not sure how out of my range those would be but I will definitely have a gander.
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@popvulture if you can, it's worth seeing whatever you go for in person. Some watches look great but don't photograph well, and others the reverse. I've had several occasions where I thought I knew exactly what I wanted, tried it on and was distinctly underwhelmed. On two of them, my heart was ambushed by something I had barely considered.
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Haha nice, the Pulp Fiction golden briefcase moment, watch edition
Yep I definitely need to go try some on, at the very least to get a good feel for case size.
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Dude I love Rolexes — those are both beautiful! I'd totally have a Submariner or an Oyster Perpetual Datejust. Not sure how out of my range those would be but I will definitely have a gander.
A quick search via eBay (merely for reference):
Neither the best prices nor the best examples, but some idea of what can be had. I did a lot of research and ended up with choosing a watch spot here in San Francisco (HQ Milton) however, were I to buy vintage again, I would probably go with Shuck the Oyster or Tropical Watch (the latter is also here in San Francisco and is run by a former partner of HQ named Jacek Kozubek). All the best with your hunt, @popvulture!
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Don't sleep on Oris, Seiko, Grand Seiko, and especially Breitling (Superocean has many options close to what you're looking for) for great divers in your range, @popvulture
But Seamaster is definitely great!
@Graeme will no doubt weigh in with some helpful thoughts as he is wont to do on horology and luggage.
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Oh and one more thing! I never intended to haggle on price when buying my watch. When I went to HQ Milton, they asked me if I intended to pay with cash to which I replied 'yes' I did. The list price of $3,200 was then promptly dropped to $2,600 on the spot. Be aware that list price is almost always flexible, @popvulture.
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I also second @mclaincausey here, especially with Oris. Such a rad watch brand.
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Hell yes to all of this! Tremendous help, y'all. @mclaincausey one of my best friends in college had a girlfriend who worked for Breitling — I hadn't thought about them in a long time. I'll def give em a look, as well as Oris for sure.
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Perfect!
One other suggestion is to check out the sale forums on rolexforums.com. It is worth getting an account and monitoring the Rolex and non-Rolex sales forums there to get a feel for the secondary market. Even if you never buy from there you can see good examples of watches and the value they command on the secondary market (and some are BNIB).
I scanned the first page of the non-Rolex sales forum and saw something similar to what you're looking for (shitty photography on the listing, which is atypical): https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=833589
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Dude check em out then, they pop up in really good nick all the time for a very reasonable price. Beyond that, my advice to anyone getting into watches (or rather the advice I would give to myself when I was at the start) would be not to shun Seiko. Man you can get so much watch for your money there
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I have owned a lot of Breitlings and they were all cool watches in one way or another…..but there was one style that I kept coming back to and that’s the Aerospace. I’m on my 4th one (OG, Avantage, Airwolf, and now Evo) since I started collecting, but I always traded them remorsefully. The Evo is slim & unobtrusive, refined, tough, and amazingly useful. Even though I finally got my grail x33, this one is a keeper.
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Sorry about the slow reply @popvulture, but I got @mclaincausey's summons as I was heading off to Melbourne for the day.
According to Omega's website, a new Seamaster Diver 300 starts at $5100 on a rubber strap, or $5400 on the bracelet. There's also the Nekton edition and retro Seamaster 300 in the $6150 to $6500 range, depending on strap choices.
What I really like about Omegas is that their Master Chronometers are basically impervious to magnetism, which can really screw up watches. I spend much of my life on a computer, and my old Breitling's timekeeping was never right as a consequence.
I can't see the US prices of a new Rolex Oyster Perpetual 36, but in Australia they're about the same as a Seamaster Diver 300, so I'd guess $5200 or $5300.
Tudor would be another brand worth looking at. The Black Bay Fifty-Eight is $3800 on a bracelet, and the Pelagos FXD is $3900. My favourite is the Black Bay Ceramic, which has the same anti-magnetic rating as an Omega. Unfortunately it costs $4850.
I don't know a lot about vintage watches, but John Tesoriero (Papa Nui) stopped wearing them because they were unreliable and not as robust as a new one.
The other thing to bear in mind is that manufacturers recommend servicing mechanical watches every five years or so, and a lot of collectors don't keep to this schedule as it will cost at least several hundred dollars, and possibly quite a bit more. (Omega charge $550 for their basic mechanical watches.) Unless the seller or dealer says it's been recently overhauled, it probably hasn't, and I'd budget for that too.
What I'd suggest doing first is visit your local dealers and try things on. The Rolexes that @henry_david posted have a diameter of 34 mm, which is very small. Most modern watches are around 39 to 40 mm, with Diver's being a few millimetres bigger, so this will give you an idea of what you like. I don't get too hung up about size provided the lugs don't extend past the side of your wrist, as you adjust to what you're wearing in a few days. But if your arms resemble pencils, you might want to skip a Big Pilot…
If you're not going to be a full-on watch nerd, I'd suggest looking at a modern watch for the reliability side. I've heard of people getting 20% to 30% discounts on RRP from dealers, though I don't know how much truth there is in that. And you almost certainly won't get anything off a Rolex in the current climate if you can find one to begin with.
Lastly, there is a worldwide shortage of Rolex watches, and some models go for two or three times their retail price on the secondary market. There is an argument that they hold their value better than other brands, so they're a better buy, but I'm not convinced that paying a premium to acquire a piece is a particularly clever investment.
There's a big fuss about the Rolex waiting list, and how it'll take years to get a piece. It's normally used as a tactic by dealers (who are my least favourite category of sales people, behind real estate agents and IT recruiters) to convince you that what you want is unavailable and you need to buy X, Y, and Z in order to qualify as a VIP customer. But there's a thread on Reddit that suggests it'll take no more than a few months to acquire even some of the desirable models. So don't buy into the hype.
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Also, I would suggest that if you really want an Omega or Rolex, you should
rob a bank or watch dealerhold off and save up the extra for it. It's probably better to spend the $5K on that, than $3K on an Oris or Breitling now, and then buy what you were after a year or two down the line. -
Incidentally, whilst in Melbourne I saw this.
It's the H. Moser Pioneer Megacool. It's got the same movement and hands as @JDelage 's gorgeous Streamliner, but in a more conventional case. It's also, thankfully, about half the price and without the waiting list.
Anyone who spends the money on a Rolex Sub No Date on the secondary market instead of this needs their head examining.
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Gorgeous. You can’t see it in that picture but the flanks have cut out areas with some embedded engraving. I think it would look better from the side simply brushed or polished.
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What I'd suggest doing first is visit your local dealers and try things on.
If you're not going to be a full-on watch nerd, I'd suggest looking at a modern watch for the reliability side.
100% to everything you've said but especially this, @Graeme. I have a 50 year old watch and have no issues but each watch from this era … well, @Graeme is right about the servicing intervals. I liked vintage Rolex because of the relative bargain involved however that's not a thing anymore given price increases. The models I mentioned are great for a "bargain" in Rolex however you need to really "buy the seller" and worry more about service history given that those watches are 25+ years old (at the minimum).
For a less bothersome experience, modern is great. Vintage does provide a wide array of options (vintage Zodiac among them) but you can also buy great watches that are new (modern Zodiac among them). And, while I like Rolex a bunch for the timeless design of its timepieces, I don't like the attendant hype that's driven up wait times and secondary prices. There are a lot of wonderful options out there.
Great breakdown, @Graeme. And I'm sure you'll find something interesting, @popvulture
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Thanks @Graeme for that wealth of information — that's a ton of stuff that's all super helpful!
The stuff you and @henry_david mentioned about the Rolex hype makes a lot of sense — I feel like the pandemic / supply chain issues combined with forums and social media have created a ton of ridiculous frenzies in so many areas, driving prices way up. As a music gear geek, I've witnessed this hardcore — it's upsetting. BUT, I think in a lot of ways it just reinforces my gravitation towards Omega as a little more of a sleeper brand. I mean, it's not a sleeper — but it's not Rolex, so there's something I like about that. Part of me has always sort of sought out the dark horse.
I think a modern one would be great, especially considering condition and repairs. I think if I can find a 300M in the $3K zone, I'd be supper happy. I'll definitely be keeping an eye out.
Like I mentioned though, definitely not in any kind of hurry, so I'll see what I can do about checking out some shops here in Austin and trying a couple on. I'll surely need some in-person vibes to really get a feel, really wouldn't be a fan of spending that much money on something without getting some good hands-on experience.
Again, thank y'all so much! This is fun.
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@mclaincausey the buckle on the strap also has the ribbed pattern repeated. I should have taken a photo, as it looks good.
@popvulture this video compares a Rolex Submariner (of the previous generation) with an Omega Seamaster, and there doesn't appear to be much in it in terms of the quality of the watches. The Omega probably has the better movement, and in my limited experience, Rolex bracelets tend to be nicer.
@JDelage I got added to a watch trading group on Facebook, and I've seen Oyster Perpetuals going over retail. People are even asking for a premium on the Air King, which is apparently the least loved model in Rolex's range. I'm not convinced that there are any bargains.
I'm very much of the opinion that paying a premium on a watch from a manufacturer that sells around a million pieces a year is stupid. I'm not willing to play games with the dealers to get on "the list" in order to purchase one at retail either.
