Coronavirus (Covid-19) Discussion
-
For what its worth, I was vaccinated but I stand with Daltmeyer's personal choice. Fuck mandates
Fair enough, I'll give it an honest listen.
I also agree that no one should be made to take anything much. However I also believe that someone making that choice regarding vaccines against SARS-COV-19, is taking on a responsibility. It is an individuals right to make that choice, but they should have to accept the consequences of it, be that travel bans, losing their job or not being admitted to public events or private property.
-
One exact and actual situation we have tonight here in Oslo at the hospital where i am working is:
100% of patients placed in intensive care and on ventilators are not vaccinated.
The others (half) are vaccinated and are placed under observation and usually can go home after 3 or 4 days.
This is not an opinion. This is a fact.Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk
-
It's so strange to me that this mentality has taken such hold. My home state of Mississippi, the most conservative state in the union, historically has had the most stringent vaccine mandates in the country for schoolchildren. Now that being antivax has become a politically conservative position (where antivaxers used to be more often than not whole earth hippie types), we can look forward to Mississippi possibly loosening these rules, and then we will see measles, mumps, rubella, and who knows, polio and other illnesses that we should have eradicated present unnecessary challenges. It's just so unnecessary and avoidable. And if you doubt that it has become political, check this out:
The way epidemiology works requires soft mandates for vaccination. By "soft," I mean, for example, sure, you don't HAVE to vaccinate your children, but don't expect them to be able to go to public schools, daycare, or Head Start if you make that choice. We don't exist in isolation. Even Mississippi understood this (and hopefully still understands that outside the weird exemption people place on Coronavirus). And from a legal perspective, there is long-standing Constitutional precedent for these mandates.
That people in the military–the MILITARY--think they get to say "no" to whatever the hell the chain of command tells them to put in their bodies is especially ridiculous. You signed up to give away that autonomy, full stop.
/end rant
-
"It is an individuals right to make that choice, but they should have to accept the consequences of it, be that travel bans, losing their job or not being admitted to public events or private property."
I'll take this one step further, but am going to sound like a cold heartless bastard for doing so…
If someone decides they do not want to participate in the vaccination schedules, I feel that they should also negate any further medical care in case of Covid contraction. Not saying that they should be ignored, but they should not take bed space from someone who has followed all protocols or someone who can't because of previous or ongoing medical reasons.
In a triage situation (and I hope to God that we don't reach that point)...very hard decisions will have to be made about who does and does not receive care. The people who have decided not to participate should be removed from that equation.
I know this thought is not going to be popular...but this thread frustrates me so much...
I hope I don't sound too harsh or too much like an ass. (Just venting)
-
So there it is. You really think anyone who doesn't submit to experimental gene therapy shouldn't be able to work. You can't shop for food with no money can you? Just sit at home and hope to starve? For my health? Anyone mandating this garbage is a tyrant and needs to be brought up on charges.
For what its worth, I was vaccinated but I stand with Daltmeyer's personal choice. Fuck mandates
Fair enough, I'll give it an honest listen.
I also agree that no one should be made to take anything much. However I also believe that someone making that choice regarding vaccines against SARS-COV-19, is taking on a responsibility. It is an individuals right to make that choice, but they should have to accept the consequences of it, be that travel bans, losing their job or not being admitted to public events or private property.
-
@daltmeyer:
So there it is.
I’m not sure what «it» is, and I do not believe we are a part of a gene-engineering experiment.
In my opinion those of us who live in a democracy have freedoms and rights tempered by responsibilty. I fully support your right to choose not to take the vaccine. However, if society is served by mass vaccination and people decline that offer then not being vaccinated puts others at risk. Society should correctly protect those people. If you have a job where you are not putting people at risk, then there is no issue. If, on the other hand, you work in a nursing home for the elderly then consideration for the nursing home’s patients should outweigh the individual’s freedoms.
To be clear, I’m not saying anyone should be punished for not taking it, I simply believe that freedoms and rights should be balanced by ethics. As @mclaincausey said, none of us live alone.
-
a) It's not gene therapy insofar as it doesn't modify your genes. It is understandable to be confused or misled because they use genetic material, but they are using snippets of the virus's genetic material to prompt an immune response as if you've been infected, but without the viral payload that creates an actual infection. It is not modifying your genes in any way–it would have to enter cell nucleus to do that and that simply doesn't happen. Anyone saying otherwise is either ignorant or deliberately misleading you.
b) there is established constitutional precedent for vaccine mandates. So under what law, and for what crime, are you proposing people be brought up on charges?
The reason this is an emotional topic is that many of us believe that misinformation and vaccine resistance is killing people needlessly, including people we admire and/or love.
-
The reason this is an emotional topic is that many of us believe that misinformation and vaccine resistance is killing people needlessly, including people we admire and/or love.
Beautifully put. Empathy is the greatest thing we have going for us as a species.
-
My rights don't end where you fear begins.
Every antivaxer I've seen wishes nothing but the best for the vaxxed. The vaccinated however act completely inhuman to their fellow man.
In the end we have one thing in common… we will both never be fully vaxxed.
I'm out.
Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
-
One exact and actual situation we have tonight here in Oslo at the hospital where i am working is:
100% of patients placed in intensive care and on ventilators are not vaccinated.
The others (half) are vaccinated and are placed under observation and usually can go home after 3 or 4 days.
This is not an opinion. This is a fact.Thanks @hajduk
Please talk about the mortality rate of Covid ventilated or the amount of medicine an intensive cared patient is infused with! -
Any thoughts on the Joe Rogan Podcast featuring Dr. Peter McCullough..
He's Vaxxed, had covid but believes up to 80% of all covid deaths could've been prevented if therapeutics were utilized in "sick" people prior to hospitalization. almost 2 years in and there is no official treatment for covid only the vax..
There are multiple treatments for COVID or the immune overdrive it causes from dexamthasone / steroids to monoclonal antibodies, and the antivirals coming down the pike from Pfizer/ glaxo etc. Many are recent in fairness and I suspect lack of access to healthcare or health system overload plays some role but in fairness most deaths from COVID could have been prevented and indeed sickness cares if more people had been vaccinated earlier. In any event there are literally thousands of scientists and doctors of unimpeachable reputations and credibility who will tell you the best way to prevent COVID deaths is vaccination.
-
@daltmeyer:
My rights don't end where you fear begins.
@daltmeyer I'm not afraid…. Never said I was. I consider vaccination protection for myself, my family and my community. It's common sense in my book.
You've been treated respectfully by everyone, and no one made it personal. No-one is wishing you ill, in fact many have explicitly wished the best for you.
Many have said they respect your right to your opinion, even though they don't agree with it. You have failed to reciprocate that respect and you've made it personal.
You chose to comment knowing that most people on this thread are vaccinated and support vaccination. The fact that you are now insulting people who don't agree with you is bordering on trolling.
I'm locking this thread for a little while so everyone can climb down. If anyone at all wants to discuss things further then feel free to PM me, although I'm off to bed now so replies may wait until the morning.
-
I’m opening this thread again (now that I’m awake
)I have some remarks.
A while back near the start of this thread I asked everyone to consider their posts here, and back up any claims with research, or link to sources for their opinions. Many do exactly that. Thank you all.
The pandemic is an emotive issue. It exposes all kinds of injustices and prejudices, awakes concern and anxiety and ethical issues. It threatens lives and livelihoods. When feelings are involved subjectivity vies with objectivity and often wins. This rarely creates the basis for a sensible exchange of views. I think many here are aware of that and post accordingly.
It is easy to forget however, not least when it comes to formulating and expressing opinions or arguments. Although I stand by every word I have written here over the last 24 hours, I realise I can come over as crass or dispassionate to people who don’t share my opinion. We can all consider that going forward.
The forum is a sum of the contributions made to it. It is perhaps natural that a discourse develops amongst people with shared or similar views. The algorithims in SoMe play on that. Luckily we don’t have them here. However these things mean that the majority of posting on this thread is one-sided. I think we all need to continue being aware of that so it doesn’t become an echo chamber, that people who do not share the dominant viewpoint stay away from.
There. If that doesn’t bore you all into going to other threads to post about your pants, nothing will
