Unpopular opinions
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Whilst researching something unrelated a Google search brought up a Rawr denim article about Gustin jeans, the comments from the owners of these jeans are their bashing of Japanese denim brands, plus reading more into Gustins marketing has made me really dislike this brand immensely.
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Whilst researching something unrelated a Google search brought up a Rawr denim article about Gustin jeans, the comments from
the owners of these jeansrandom internet idiots are their bashing of Japanese denim brands, plus reading more into Gustins marketing has made me really dislike this brand immensely.This article?
http://www.rawrdenim.com/2013/01/gustin-hand-crafted-crowd-sourced-delivered-to-you-denim/ -
No, this one.
http://www.rawrdenim.com/2014/04/denim-darwinism-love-cheap-raws/
And as the people all own Gustin, all use the same defence of attacking people wearing more expensive Japanese denim, and all obviously feel quite protective as they backed the crowd source I think that there is commonality to the group rather than randomness. I wouldn't call them idiots either, merely deluded if they really believe what they are saying.
Making the claim of "Redefining premium menswear, starting with denim", and making jeans which are "as good as any other", whilst rocking the always made in the USA" vibe hard is fine. However if it then seems that the jeans which are apparently "artisan quality" are made in sewing shops staffed by migrant workers earning minimum wage then it doesn't make them a a formidable rival to the established quality denim brands, it makes them American Apparel.
Their fans on these articles seem to want to ignore the differences between their jeans and the higher end jeans by blanket insults and claiming that the details enjoyed by others just don't matter. Well, they seem to matter enough for them to complain about them.
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Your first problem was reading Rawr Denim. Your second problem was reading the comments.
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Yeh, actually I guess I don't really hate Gustin, I just find this kind of "support" from their wearers a form of pervasive arrogance which rubs me up the wrong way. Just as attacks without basis on brands like them piss me off too.
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Whilst researching something unrelated a Google search brought up a Rawr denim article about Gustin jeans, the comments from the owners of these jeans are their bashing of Japanese denim brands, plus reading more into Gustins marketing has made me really dislike this brand immensely.
As a Gustin and Iron Heart owner I can appreciate both companies. I wouldn't read too much into comments left in an article. We know how those can go.
Actually a lot of the comments seemed ok to me. Didn't see that much bashing. Some people just don't want to spend big bucks on clothes.
From hanging out on the Gustin forum, I find their customers range from knowledgeable denim people to newbies getting into selvage for the first time and looking for knowledge.
Some of them could turn into Iron Heart customers too.
Being I live in the USA I'm all for the buying in USA. -
good. keep busting 400$ on overpriced japanese jeans…. silly!!!!
The above was the worst, but the vibe of the other posters spouting verbatim Gustin marketing rhetoric was uncomfortable to say the least.
A made in the USA sweatshop is still a sweatshop.
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To expand on that last bit, I simply don't buy that their product can be all it claims to be for the price.
How can it be "artisan quality" and "redefine premium menswear" for $81 simply by cutting out retail and advertising?
I have some experience in manufacturing costs and what they promote does not sit well with what they claim.
Basically, I'm not keen and that's my opinion
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I have said this before. I could get jeans made in Los Angeles out of fabric and components I supply for USD12 - USD15 per pair. That is sweat shop labour, probably by illegals. I could hand on heart claim it to be made in America, but so what?
So my unpopular opinion is that not everything that is made in America is something Americans should be proud of and by the same token, not everything made in China is crap….
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However if it then seems that the jeans which are apparently "artisan quality" are made in sewing shops staffed by migrant workers earning minimum wage then it doesn't make them a a formidable rival to the established quality denim brands, it makes them American Apparel.
A made in the USA sweatshop is still a sweatshop.
It sounds like you know something I don’t Mega… are Gustin jeans made in USA sweatshops?
All I know is they are made in the same factory as RRL, 3sixteen, and Tellason… -
I don't know anything other than their price point doesn't add up to "artisan quality" as they proclaim.The other brands which you mention make no such claim but do use proprietary fabrics.
I did have some RRL jeans once too and they were utter garbage.
I can also tell you for a fact that Prada jeans are stitched in the same factory as Primark (Euro cheap shop). Ethical supply and manufacture is deeper than the country it comes from. So deep in fact that these sewing shops have different lines set up at different skill sets, different machinery and varying price points, so it's also not enough to claim that they are made in the same place as brand X and therefore….
One of the big Japanese mills (for example, and I can't remember if it's Kurobi, Kaihara or Nihon Mempu) made denim for some seriously cheap brands.....and guess what.....it's cheaper.
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If you have to have Made in America jawnery, why not Railcar? They make their own stuff.
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I think I read somewhere that Gustin jeans are cut and sewn in SF at the same plant as Tellason. But even if that place isn't staffed by undocumented workers, I can guarantee most of them aren't earning any more than the minimum wage for the city of San Francisco, which is close to $11 per hour. That type of job doesn't usually offer benefits to its hourly employees, although in SF most businesses are required to provide some sort of health coverage. In my opinion, this type of wage manufacturing job in the US is a very difficult way to live comfortably. From my limited knowledge of Japanese manufacturers, their employees seem to be better taken care of.
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San Francisco has free universal health care though, so it's not as bad as it would be almost anywhere else in the US. Minimum wage will hit $15/hour by 2018.
I'm wondering though, do we really think they could get away with illegal laborers in a high profile San Francisco factory? I'm skeptical.
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Look, all I'm saying about Gustin in particular, and I can't empirically question their ethics as I have no empirical evidence, is that they riff the quality angle hard and I think that there are questions to be asked there due to their price point.
They talk about artisan quality specifically which I am pretty sure is seriously bold claim considering they don't use proprietary fabrics and contract their sewing out.
They make a play of being the equal of the high end of denim, both Japanese and American but it doesn't stack to me, plus the attitude of (some of) their customers rubs me up the wrong way.
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If anyone has anything more than just speculation that Gustin and its factories (could in theory) have a policy of illegal employment than I will never buy from them again or any of the other brands who use the illegally hiring shop. But if there is zero actual factually based problem with this than I have about as much reason to suspect Gustin as I do any other company…
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Your opinion man, nature of the thread and I'm genuinely pleased that you like the product.
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I could hand on heart claim it to be made in America, but so what?
I was naively blinded by the "made in the USofA" badge for a while… This is why I am now getting into Goodwear:
I am also trying to overcome my ignorance towards Southern-Asian countries and my thinking it's àll sweatshop made…
Unpop op: I love the Ebola virus...
