Pearls Of (Denim) Wisdom - OR - This Much I Know (about denim).
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A couple of years ago a forum member who goes by @tmadd wrote a post that I loved. In amongst all the fretting over details, measurements, and fits that we do, his post seemed to cut through the bull. I've tried to follow his advice over the last few years and it's saved my relationship to a pair of jeans on more than one occasion. Here it is:
@zatenm Wow those are beautiful! Make me miss my UHR that I shrank myself out of! Can't wait to see those as you wear them more!
I think one of the hardest/most important things about nailing fits/sizes with Iron Heart…especially the heavier weight stuff, is having the mix of foresight/faith/patience to realize that you'll get what you want by virtue of just rolling with something that doesn't look quite right when it's brand new. For the last year+ of selling jeans at Self Edge, I employed an unorthodox, but effective, and more importantly to me, honest, technique anytime anybody was about to try on straight leg jeans (even 666 is "straight leg" by virtue of not having a radical taper): I'd tell them before they went in the fitting room that they likely wouldn't like how the jeans looked below the knee, but that with the combination of hemming to remove length/cuff bulk, cuffing (using a double cuff to pull the fabric in), and the natural softening of the fabric and attendant normalized relationship with gravity would give them a great look that they liked over time. If they seemed unsure, I followed up with, "I've never liked how anything I've bought looked when it was new...my ability to buy things I like rests entirely on my ability to imagine the effects of time...now you have to trust me" I don't know if people actually trusted me, or if they were just afraid enough of how crazy I sounded that they usually ended up buying the jeans, but I do know most of them ended up liking the jeans!
The thing is that we spend a hefty sum on these jeans, we do our research, we cross our fingers, yet I bet many of us have given up on a pair after one wear and flipped them, or have multiple pairs stashed away that we never use as we aren't happy with them. So I figured a thread where we can all share some nuggets of wisdom and experience, discuss and argue about them, might be a good thing. It may mean some of us dig up a stashed pair and give them another go, or it may help in making decisions about future purchases. It may just be fun.
You don't have to be as eloquent as @tmadd or as philosophical. It can be general denim advice or about specific denims and cuts. It may just be a short observation. And we can debate all we want.
I'll chuck out a couple to get the ball rolling.
- You can save a pair of jeans with a re-hem. I picked up some IH-888-UHR when they came out. The cut should have been perfect for me (shortish legs, big thighs) and I knew enough about the denim to get the fit right post soak. The waist, thigh and top block fit like they should but there was something funky about the silhouette. I was very disappointed. I wore them about ten times, have considered selling them, but instead took them to FnC and had them re-hemmed a whole inch shorter than any jeans I've ever had. By rights they should be too short. In fact they now look brilliant. They drape like they should, they break like they should, the whole profile of them has been changed just by losing that inch in the inseam. If in doubt, re-hem.
- Fake it until you make it. I have two pairs that didn't fit as I'd hoped when I bought them. In both cases I just wore the buggers. A lot. In fact I abused them. Both pairs are now amongst my favourites and the imperfections when new have disappeared because I made them mine.
So any pearls of denim wisdom you have come across, major or minor, whether about the denim itself, hemming, soaking, fading, stretching, cuts or whatever, share them here.
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I like @tmadd and really miss his presence on social media. He has a confidence and personality that I really respect.
I don’t claim to know a ton about denim, but in the 3+ years of being a diehard IH fanboy, I have learned a few things through experience.
For me, an initial snug fit is crucial. I used to be a size 38 and then lost some weight and started buying size 36s. There was a pair of IH cargos in a size 34 that I rolled the dice on and initially they were almost too snug to wear, but after getting through some painful days, they ended up working out very well.
I then did the same thing with some 21oz 463s. Size 34s were almost too snug to button. After 10+ wears they were almost perfect. I’m now doing the same thing with some 25oz XHS 634s.
I find the initial snug fit to all for stretch from everyday wear while still maintaining a flattering fit. If they are too comfortable fit wise upon initial wear, they can stretch too much and give an overly baggy fit. I hate having to hot watch a pair of jeans after every wear because they are too loose.
Anyways, just my humble opinion…great thread idea R!
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My rules of the road are simple and obvious, perhaps not even worth stating:
I prefer hemming such that the soaked inseam is a half-inch longer than my normal inseam so that I'll have stacks and an allowance for more shrinkage than anticipated.
Don't get a waist that is too small with plans to stretch it out. Get jeans that fit you and are comfortable post soak. You can always hot soak the waist back a bit.
Ditch the denim lore that doesn't make sense or has no scientific basis: no need to "pre-process" by wearing them in a tub or rubbing sand into them: the latter just results in dirty jeans, and I'd wager that the granules of sand abrade the cotton. Just soak them at an appropriate temperature for the shrinkage you want, let them dry, and wear them.
Wash em in Woolite Dark, no softener, appropriate temperature (warmer with desired shrinkage) when they stink, inside-out, low/no spin, hang or lay out to dry. Don't outside-out them until they are dry unless you want marbling. Sunlight fades denim and accelerates drying, so you can do it outside in the sun (though I never do).
Don't be afraid of sanforization. If you like the denim and cut, you'll love the stable waistband. Washing and drying jeans correctly is a pain (and if you care about contrast, it impacts that), and an unstable denim will require hot soaks to get back to the correct size.
Wear them hard until they disintegrate and repair as needed. I like to cycle them from work pants to casual as they evolve.
And I'll end with: Iron Heart has for me the best combination of cut, character, and durability among the brands I've tried.
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I don’t claim to know a ton about denim, but in the 3+ years of being a diehard IH fanboy, I have learned a few things through experience.
That’s it though, anyone with your kind of experience has a lot to offer.
My rules of the road are simple and obvious, perhaps not even worth stating…
Don't be afraid of sanforization.
Your «simple and obvious» is occult knowledge to some people. I especially agree about sanforisation. STF can be exciting but it complicates an already tricky job.
Great posts guys, thank you. This is the kind of thing I’d like to collect here. Personal observations born of real world experience.
I’ve always found finding the correct inseam length to be very difficult. I think because I was a sneakerhead when I started buying IH I got used to longer inseams to let the denim drape over my Adidas. Now that I mostly wear Engineers I need a much shorter length. I like different inseam lengths on different cuts too.
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I'll share @Dstauffer 's experience in regards don't buy the jeans to wide.
My first jeans of this kind, the 666s 18oz., I bought in a store. I told the sales person how I want the jeans too look, he gave me the one he thought would match my expectations. They have been so tight, that I never in my dreams would have bought them. It was a real pain too get the buttons closed and took me almost forever. But he said to me, trust me, they will stretch and will be just fine. Well, I trusted him and I absolutely love that jeans. But without a experienced sales guy I most certainly would never bought it.
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Well, I trusted him and I absolutely love that jeans. But without a experienced sales guy I most certainly would never bought it.
This!
I had the exact opposite experience with my first pair of IH, surprisingly at a well known store in a major American city (I’ll leave it at that). I had very little experience and the guy recommended a pair and a size and sure enough they looked good in store. They were built from the 21oz and two days later were hanging off me in all directions.
The salesman must have known about 21oz stretch, why didn’t he tell me? Finding in-store salespeople you can trust and who know their stuff is a huge help. It goes without saying that IHUK staff are really very good in this respect.
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I don't want to get all preachy and holier-than-thou here but we absolutely want our customers to love what they buy and come back for more. If we do not think an item will suit, we tell them. A sale of something that does not work is a hollow victory…...It's one of the main reasons we do not incent our staff based on their individual sales, any incentive plan we put in place is based on long term sales volume/profitability....
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A sale of something that does not work is a hollow victory…...
Which is precisely why I have never, and will never buy anything from that particular store , online or in person again. It’s also why I went direct to IHUK for my next purchase. The rest, as they say, is history [emoji1]
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For me, an initial snug fit is crucial. I used to be a size 38 and then lost some weight and started buying size 36s. There was a pair of IH cargos in a size 34 that I rolled the dice on and initially they were almost too snug to wear, but after getting through some painful days, they ended up working out very well.I then did the same thing with some 21oz 463s. Size 34s were almost too snug to button. After 10+ wears they were almost perfect. I’m now doing the same thing with some 25oz XHS 634s.
I find the initial snug fit to all for stretch from everyday wear while still maintaining a flattering fit. If they are too comfortable fit wise upon initial wear, they can stretch too much and give an overly baggy fit. I hate having to hot watch a pair of jeans after every wear because they are too loose.
Anyways, just my humble opinion...great thread idea R!
Agreed… My first pair of IH was a 666s-18 I bought it in a shop. Without any expirience with "real" denim I was adviced to go for tag 36. The fit around the waist was comfortable, around the thigh it was a snug. The waist stretched the thigh not that much and it ended up with a pair with what I wasn't very happy. As I was impressed by the way this pair was made I didn't surrender... Some emails with Paula later I orderd a 634s-21 tag 34 directly from Gosport, snug around the waist, comfortable at the thighs. I didn't have the 634 on my rader because I thought the fit would be too oldfashioned but am thinking now that this is the best fitting pair of jeans for my measurements and really love it. I tried many other but this pair will allways be my first choice...
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Just soak them at an appropriate temperature for the shrinkage you want, let them dry, and wear them.
This x 10. My experience has been that soaking before wearing prolongs the life of your jeans. I have a pair that has never touched water and there's already a hole in the back of the knee and on both cuffs, and this is within 8 months of casual wear. Holes will eventually form whether you soak or not but i've noticed that my soaked jeans do not suffer wear and tear as fast.
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I especially agree about sanforisation. STF can be exciting but it complicates an already tricky job.
I don't own unsanforized denim because I fear the unpredictibility. Although, the 777 UHR's are very nice and may persuade me.
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I don't want to get all preachy and holier-than-thou here but we absolutely want our customers to love what they buy and come back for more. If we do not think an item will suit, we tell them. A sale of something that does not work is a hollow victory…...It's one of the main reasons we do not incent our staff based on their individual sales, any incentive plan we put in place is based on long term sales volume/profitability....
Let me just say I have always appreciated the customer service I get from IH. I honestly feel that the IHUK staff is the most patient, helpful, and friendly of any I have encountered. The experience I have had over the years is why I always buy new items directly from IHUK. I have never felt pressured to make a purchase and as G said, I have always felt IHUK’s main concern is that I love what I buy and for the last 3+ years I have been coming back for more…it’s become a bit of a problem
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I don't own unsanforized denim because I fear the unpredictibility. Although, the 777 UHR's are very nice and may persuade me.
Totally understand. My conclusion in the end was that the UHR is so good that it is worth investing in and overcoming the fear. With the collected experience and knowledge of the IH crew and this forum you won’t go wrong if you do your research. Also see my original post. If in doubt wear the crap out of them and make them yours. More about that in a post coming soon.
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I don't own unsanforized denim because I fear the unpredictibility. Although, the 777 UHR's are very nice and may persuade me.
Totally understand. My conclusion in the end was that the UHR is so good that it is worth investing in and overcoming the fear. With the collected experience and knowledge of the IH crew and this forum you won’t go wrong if you do your research. Also see my original post. If in doubt wear the crap out of them and make them yours. More about that in a post coming soon.
Jep, raw denim is not that complicated… you just need a seller who know's a little about the stuff he sells, follow the advice regarding shrinkage. That's it. Had very good experiences with buying raw denim from IHUK, Statement-Store and of course Danny (RnH).
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^+1. I copped a pair of UHR off the market place in the 666 cut. The cut wasn't for me (I'm a 634 and 463 guy), but my god the denim was out of this world…
https://www.ironheart.co.uk/extinct/ih-634-uhr.html
@Giles pleeeeeeeaaaaase we need a rerun
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I’ve always found finding the correct inseam length to be very difficult. I think because I was a sneakerhead when I started buying IH I got used to longer inseams to let the denim drape over my Adidas. Now that I mostly wear Engineers I need a much shorter length. I like different inseam lengths on different cuts too.
Interesting–I tend to appreciate length more with boots because the boots (particularly engineers and cowboys) push the hem up the leg and form great stacks, and with sneakers that same length may drag on the floor and destroy the hem, especially at the back. My jeans always tend to be a bit long though, long enough to cuff if I liked cuffing. I also tend to wear a given pair of jeans with any style of footwear aside from formal or sandal (I don't have "boot" or "sneaker" jeans, especially since I've moved on from 634), so my mileage varies.
That reminds me of another thing I've noticed: particularly with new stiff jeans, don't freak out if the knees poke out from upward pressure along the shin from the cuffs resting on your shoes. It may look weird to you, but as the fabric softens and slackens, the effect will diminish.
