Coronavirus (Covid-19) Discussion
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This is certainly unusual. A ratio of 10-to-12 deaths a year going to 200 for COVID is unheard of. In the US, as a whole, we're getting to 300k COVID-related deaths, which is about a 10% increase in total annual deaths (very much a back of the envelope calculation).
In Perth, Covid is non-existent. 0 cases within the community since May and the freedom to live life as normal. Even in Singapore (another place I'm familiar with and usually frequent), the Covid death rate is less than 30 with cases of over 50k. It is almost impossible for me to understand the figures in other places or relate to what is going on.
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Thurrock, a Borough in South East England, has the highest rates in the UK. Its where my wife and I are from, and where our parents still live.
My wife has been on a call with the Health Minister today. That is unheard of. The UK haven't had a state of national emergency, with all the powers that brings with it, for decades.
I could rant on all day about the blatant disregard lots of people have for the guidance and law re covid. We went for a walk in a forest yesterday. The numbers of multiple household groups we observed was appalling.
I can't even describe the pressure we in the public sector are under, and the media can't even start to reflect it. We are stressed, exhausted, and just fucking exacerbated by the public's (in part), disregard for guidance.
Please, please, think about what you do and what the consequences might be.
Take care everyone.
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Not according to UK Govt guidelines….
What does tier 4 mean?
Under tier 4 restrictions, non-essential shops, hairdressers, and leisure and entertainment venues must close, with a new “stay at home” message introduced.People who need to travel for education or childcare are exempt, and exercise is unlimited. Where people cannot work from home, they will still be able to travel to work.
Under the measures, households are not allowed to mix, but one person is allowed to meet with one other person outside in a public space. Support bubbles and those meeting for childcare are exempt.
Those who are deemed clinically extremely vulnerable should not go to work and should limit time outside of their homes.
Tier 4 residents must not stay overnight away from home, and cannot travel abroad.
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All I'm saying is that gathering outdoors - as long as you stay 6ft away or wear a mask, etc - is perfectly fine. If the UK guidelines don't agree with that, then they are not in line with current science, and are probably undermining their own effectiveness by making unreasonable and ungrounded requests.
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No matter what science they bring out..
Do people follow the rules, they don’t
That why it a mess in the first place.
Take a look here how the world is now..https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
It gonna be a long ride… till it over..
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All I'm saying is that gathering outdoors - as long as you stay 6ft away or wear a mask, etc - is perfectly fine. If the UK guidelines don't agree with that, then they are not in line with current science, and are probably undermining their own effectiveness by making unreasonable and ungrounded requests.
They have completely got the “science” wrong with every move they have made throughout this whole fucked up year. I don’t believe anything they say anymore.
The damage that has been done to people’s mental health along with livelihoods is horrendous.
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I don't care whether the UK guidelines are in line with current science or not, they are published governmental guidelines and I will follow them, as a democracy we abrogate our ability to make some personal choices so that the people we elect can make difficult decisions on our behalf. If we think we know better, we should either offer ourselves up for election, so we can be involved in that decision-making process, but not decide to ignore what we are told to do because we think we know better.
Almost everyone I know can make a plausible argument about why the current rules should not apply to them. That path leads to anarchy and possibly why the UK is a Covid shit-storm. And, by Christ it is.
I have to travel from one tier 4 area to another about 150 miles away tomorrow because I have to attend a joint funeral for relatives who have died from Covid. I'm really not happy about the risk that this is putting to me and my family, and I would do almost anything not to go. I'm "allowed" under the current guidelines to do this, but from a sensible "let's try and contain this shit", it's a fucking stupid thing to do.
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I don’t think I know better. I just don’t trust them.
I have the feeling they have absolutely no idea what they are doing.
The impression “winging it” springs to mind
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@neph93 - This reminds me of the old trope of the case of the 60mph limited road where a drunk driver driving at 80mph killed a pedestrian. The city council's response is to immediately lower the speed limit to 50mph…
That metaphor doesn’t really work here as it relies on one outlier doing the damage. In the case of the current pandemic you have a large non-compliant minority in many countries (not least the U.K.), that continue to erode the effect of restrictions. If that is allowed to carry on the disease is going to spread and more restrictions will be inevitable in order to attempt to slow the spread and relieve pressure on hospitals. The alternative is to allow the non-compliant minority to continue to increase the R-number. Exponential infection will lead to collapses in the health provision.
The places where this disease has been successfully contained have done so by successfully integrating the science with effective public health policy, which has been clearly communicated and largely followed by a compliant populace.
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Where ever I go my mask and sanitizer comes with me.
Still the Government doing their best to help with the guidelines.
Some kind of law and order.But what gets me is idiots out there says the following.
There is no covid… negative vibes in the head.
In September just gone, there is no covid why you wearing a mask..
Asian cash and carry have no rules, don’t shop there.
I have make many sacrifices this year, with my family.Whether the government get it right or wrong...
it’s down to yourself to keep safe and that it’s
Too many people have died from the disease.. even I had it believed me it horrible..
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That metaphor doesn’t really work here …
Then I wasn't clear in my metaphor. The point I was trying to make is that governments have a natural tendency when they find they cannot control one aspect of events to then crank up control in a different, unrelated area. This is exactly what's happening with COVID. As far as we know, virtually all infections are taking place indoors, often in places the government cannot control (e.g., private homes). In response, some governments have put in place rules about behavior outdoors, where it's much easier to see what people do. Those rules are ineffective wrt COVID and in fact counter-productive because they undermine the credibility of the authorities.
As to countries that have done well, they are mostly dictatures, small fairly isolated island nations (NZ), or nations with a different culture (as in South Korea, where people are used to wearing masks). Enacting and enforcing bad laws is a step in the wrong direction.
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@JDelage my job is as lead practitioner for the Deprivation of Liberty Safeguards, domestic legislation for England and Wales that ensures that citizen's rights pursuant to thr HRA and ECtHR are adhered to and only breached where it is legal to do so.
In a nutshell, I work with adults with mental health disorders and learning disabilities who are assessed as being unable to make key decisions for themselves. This includes where they live and the care they receive. It includes admissions to hospital. You can imagine how challenging the covid restrictions are for care homes and their residents who are diagnosed with dementias.
Human rights are sacrosanct to me and I spend my working life ensuring that our rights are maintained regardless of disability. If we don't, we risk going back to Victorian style institutions, and believe me, that still happens.
I have to write statements for the Courts evidencing when and why I think it is justified in law, to deprive a person of their liberty.
Now with that said, I think that the UK Government has been very liberal with the restrictions it has passed into law as a reaction to Covid. The UK public aren't generally as responsible as some of our Continental neighbours. We don't really adhere to the social contract that would make for a more responsible society that say, generalising, Scandinavian and some SE Asian countries do.
The Premier of the Netherlands early on referred to the UK public as teenagers who don't act responsibly. Though I don't completely subscribe to that, there is a point to be made. I think it is why the UK and USA have struggled with covid. A neo Liberal agenda and a public that thinks it knows better, but are completely disconnected from each other in fragmented communities.
I bowed out of the covid forum here for quite a while as I became frustrated, and have to deal with this every day at work. I piped up again today because people need to take this serious, particularly the new strain tearing through the UK.
We need to follow the guidance as a society, whether or not it fits our own personal values or agenda. I know that is challenging, but it is all we have at the moment.
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I think it is why the UK and USA have struggled with covid.
The UK and US COVID situations are much closer to those of France, Italy, Spain, Belgium, and now Germany, than those are to Singapore, SK, and NZ. All Western countries are struggling with the response. All governments have f'ed up at various points. Some have f'ed up marginally more than others. Most of those which have not f'ed up obviously still are struggling (e.g., Germany). As far as I can see, nobody in the Western democracies has found the right mix of measures.
