Coronavirus (Covid-19) Discussion
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That metaphor doesn’t really work here …
Then I wasn't clear in my metaphor. The point I was trying to make is that governments have a natural tendency when they find they cannot control one aspect of events to then crank up control in a different, unrelated area. This is exactly what's happening with COVID. As far as we know, virtually all infections are taking place indoors, often in places the government cannot control (e.g., private homes). In response, some governments have put in place rules about behavior outdoors, where it's much easier to see what people do. Those rules are ineffective wrt COVID and in fact counter-productive because they undermine the credibility of the authorities.
As to countries that have done well, they are mostly dictatures, small fairly isolated island nations (NZ), or nations with a different culture (as in South Korea, where people are used to wearing masks). Enacting and enforcing bad laws is a step in the wrong direction.
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@JDelage my job is as lead practitioner for the Deprivation of Liberty Safeguards, domestic legislation for England and Wales that ensures that citizen's rights pursuant to thr HRA and ECtHR are adhered to and only breached where it is legal to do so.
In a nutshell, I work with adults with mental health disorders and learning disabilities who are assessed as being unable to make key decisions for themselves. This includes where they live and the care they receive. It includes admissions to hospital. You can imagine how challenging the covid restrictions are for care homes and their residents who are diagnosed with dementias.
Human rights are sacrosanct to me and I spend my working life ensuring that our rights are maintained regardless of disability. If we don't, we risk going back to Victorian style institutions, and believe me, that still happens.
I have to write statements for the Courts evidencing when and why I think it is justified in law, to deprive a person of their liberty.
Now with that said, I think that the UK Government has been very liberal with the restrictions it has passed into law as a reaction to Covid. The UK public aren't generally as responsible as some of our Continental neighbours. We don't really adhere to the social contract that would make for a more responsible society that say, generalising, Scandinavian and some SE Asian countries do.
The Premier of the Netherlands early on referred to the UK public as teenagers who don't act responsibly. Though I don't completely subscribe to that, there is a point to be made. I think it is why the UK and USA have struggled with covid. A neo Liberal agenda and a public that thinks it knows better, but are completely disconnected from each other in fragmented communities.
I bowed out of the covid forum here for quite a while as I became frustrated, and have to deal with this every day at work. I piped up again today because people need to take this serious, particularly the new strain tearing through the UK.
We need to follow the guidance as a society, whether or not it fits our own personal values or agenda. I know that is challenging, but it is all we have at the moment.
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I think it is why the UK and USA have struggled with covid.
The UK and US COVID situations are much closer to those of France, Italy, Spain, Belgium, and now Germany, than those are to Singapore, SK, and NZ. All Western countries are struggling with the response. All governments have f'ed up at various points. Some have f'ed up marginally more than others. Most of those which have not f'ed up obviously still are struggling (e.g., Germany). As far as I can see, nobody in the Western democracies has found the right mix of measures.
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Where ever I go my mask and sanitizer comes with me.
Still the Government doing their best to help with the guidelines.
Some kind of law and order.But what gets me is idiots out there says the following.
There is no covid… negative vibes in the head.
In September just gone, there is no covid why you wearing a mask..
Asian cash and carry have no rules, don’t shop there.
I have make many sacrifices this year, with my family.Whether the government get it right or wrong...
it’s down to yourself to keep safe and that it’s
Too many people have died from the disease.. even I had it believed me it horrible..
@kasi thank you brother, yours is a voice of reason. Keep safe.
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Just be happy y’all don’t live in Tejas. It’s a concrete jungle out here…
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'As far as I can see, nobody in the Western democracies has found the right mix of measures.
So, because I am certainly not the sharpest tool on the box, I work on the basis that I know a lot less about this shit than others who are privy to data that I cant see, nor probably comprehend. And given that this situation is an unknown, movable feast that we can't control, nor readily understand at the moment, I'll do what I'm told. That is not a position I am particularly comfortable with, but I'm not going to waste my time berating other people who don't know fuck all either.
I am by nature a very sociable animal, I love meeting people and travelling, and I find this whole current situation very depressing. But what I do know is, if I cut my human interactions down now (which I hate), at some point, I may get back to doing what I love.
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[Human rights are sacrosanct to me and I spend my working life ensuring that our rights are maintained regardless of disability. If we don't, we risk going back to Victorian style institutions, and believe me, that still happens.
I have to write statements for the Courts evidencing when and why I think it is justified in law, to deprive a person of their liberty.
Now with that said, I think that the UK Government has been very liberal with the restrictions it has passed into law as a reaction to Covid. The UK public aren't generally as responsible as some of our Continental neighbours. We don't really adhere to the social contract that would make for a more responsible society that say, generalising, Scandinavian and some SE Asian countries do.
Have to disagree with you there. I don't think making people die on their own in hospital is very liberal. My friend wasn't allowed to see her mum in hospital over xmas and the poor women was on her own in her final moments.
People need to be careful, give people space etc. But we need some common sense.](https://www.ironheart.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=4192)
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That’s the rub. We live all these years with the goal of exiting this life peacefully and graciously, and then this, where even daily functions are disrupted. The only recompense is the fact that we don’t really know. Maybe it was much ado about nothing and the spirit of the universe is so omnipresent that nothing that happens in this organic life can diminish at all the magnificence of existence. That’s my hope, that not even the worst thing conceivable can stain the glory of what is. Cause otherwise, we’re fecked. On a scale of 100, we as a whole are at risk of failing the entrance exam to the everlasting. Whatever that may be…
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I personally have adopted a behavior that goes beyond the local rules. I have no problem with people choosing to go overboard too. Based on what we know currently, it is quite clear that meeting someone outdoors is no problem with reasonable rules (6ft apart). Going to say goodbye in person to someone dying of COVID inside an hospital is a completely different ball game and is quite risky.
My issues are with:
(1) Government enacting & enforcing stupid, ineffective laws (perfect example of this: beach closing).
(2) Individuals putting blame on others for adopting a different but still reasonable behavior. -
Four weeks ago.
My wife nans passed away… few days later her brother die.. who was fit. Bury her sister... before his time was up.
Just had a phone call from my in laws today a 38 years die of covid.
Every other day someone is dying...
That all I hear every other day...
Even when you go to the hospital they says come alone for the appointment if you can, unless a kid or a carer needs help.
Pregnant women only allowed person at birth.
For covid
Just like Giles said it hash they don’t let you see anybody..
my dear Paula stay strong..Just a shit time really.
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Twenty people inside a craft brewery: INCONCEIVABLE
Two hundred people inside a Walmart: PRICELESS -
Seems like following guidelines to reduce transmission and death is cooler than other options.
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Paula lost her mum and bother recently. She could not see them. It was shit, and she is troubled by that, but going to see them would have placed her at risk, and therefore others.
Dam that is awful. Please send her our love.
It’s been a awful year for so many.
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I think at least one thing we can all surely agree on, regardless of where on the planet we live is that covid is effecting us all in deeply personal ways now, beyond the headlines we read. That makes it very emotive, and I'd suggest caution in how we discuss the issues we've experienced. I'm not talking censorship, I'm talking responsibility and consideration.
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Everything is shut in Germany except supermarkets and churches. I’ve been watching the Corona parties taking place all week across the street from my apartment.
