Lifter problems
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I am trying to hit that sweet spot between breaking parallel and rounding the lower back at the (ahem) bottom of the lift that gives the dreaded butt wink.
While I am far from an expert, I have always believed that this should be the goal for all squatters. Keeping Lumbar Extension should be top priority - as long as you are able to facilitate re-engagement of the hams and glutes by going low enough, ATG should be a secondary goal only after load is able to be maintained with accurate Lumbar ext.
Also, to follow up with @goosehd - I got back in the globo gym this week and it hit me how totally different my body has reacted to more isolated movements as opposed to totally dynamic as I was doing at the CrossFit for the last 7 months. I really think there is value in both styles of movements.
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@Appfaff @neph93 Good discussion, I'll chime in here as well, and I know it's going to turn into a screed but I pretty much lived and breathed squatting for 2 years, and coached as my job for quite a while as well (which in a transient city like Baltimore often meant fixing other people's bad coaching)…
Regarding the so-called "butt-wink" I think it's important to remember that lumbar extension =/= over-extension. In younger trainees, who were told over and over about lumbar extension and the perils of the dreaded butt-wink, I often saw them focusing so much on arching the back that they went into over-extension. The irony here is that over-extension will get pulled out by the hamstrings as you descend to parallel, and this return to neutral is confused for "butt-wink." If the trainee is really unlucky, they have a novice coach that will point it out, and they'll over-extend harder, and this battle will continue until they have a complex about it and they're telling their therapist about their incurable butt-wink and how they're pretty sure they'll never go to heaven.
It's also worth remembering that most people (who can afford coaching at least) are desk-jockeys and have an anterior pelvic tilt due to sitting so much. This means that what they think is neutral is already over-extension. So these people's squats will look butt-winky until they get that sorted. In my gym we forbade coaching with the term butt-wink because we found it unhelpful as it focuses on the wrong issue; butt-wink is a symptom not a problem. Just because you can see the symptom of anterior pelvic tilt while squatting doesn't mean it's a problem for squatting only and certainly doesn't mean it's going to be fixed during squatting.
Now, an excessively flexed spine IS bad, especially under load, but if you teach someone to squat properly you're not going to see them revert back to the dog-poo squat, since it's not how they learned it in the first place. You mainly see this in people who were shown a squat for 5 minutes and then asked to do 1,000 of them as fast as possible.
Parallel or below is safer for the knees than higher than parallel, which I can explain but will avoid putting a screed within a screed.
It's my experience that most people can squat to parallel with a decent spinal position and knees tracking in line with the toes if they're taught how and allowed to focus on form until it becomes second nature. Speed and weight make focusing on form difficult, so pull back on those if things are breaking down. Yes there are special cases of injuries, surgeries, or extreme body proportions, but most people are just plain normal no matter how much they'd love to convince me or you they're just so darn special. I did once have a client who was 6'3" but was shorter than his 5'2" wife while seated, this is not an exaggeration. He had some sort of growth plate anomaly and his limbs and digits were extremely long. He could easily hook grip the 2" axle bar, for instance. His squats definitely looked strange but he managed (and he played rugby so he never tried to convince me he needed special consideration).
Not saying anyone else here said anything inaccurate, just wanted to add my thoughts on it.
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@tvenuto I really appreciate your "screed". Thank you.
Having read and re-read it I took some time to check my form without weight, with just the bar, and under light weight (50kg). I'm happy with my stance (within shoulder width), my foot position (very slightly flared), and that my knees are tracking where they should.
I am certainly not over extending, but the aforementioned sweet spot where my butt starts being drawn in towards the back of my knees is vanishingly small, and only just after I break parallel. It is a little frustrating, as I'm enjoying the how low I can go (sing it), and I am finding it comfortable, but there is no doubt that it is a bit like a dog squeezing one out.
I tried different ways of dropping down to see what worked but regardless, at about one cm after breaking parallel my butt starting curving under… We have PT's at my gym, but I'm not convinced they are up to the job of fixing me
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Well if I were coaching you and you could get to parallel without issue I'd say don't worry about pushing for deeper. Unless you want to compete in the olympic lifts I'm not sure a super deep squat buys you all that much.
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Ha yea I don’t judge a man for his calves but with that upper body his kneecaps should be depressions! #weoutsquattedthor
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Even his own brother dragged him.
That's so off, I thought it was Photoshopped to be a joke at first.
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Buddy ask anything you want. I can generally give you solid advice..i was coached by very competend people that really have a clue. National programs are very well funded. My background is in Olympic weightlifting. 2 disciplines. The snatch and the clean and jerk. Those 2 lifts are the competition lifts but we do a lot of accessories to complement. Tons of squats front and back and a lot of pulling and upper back strengthening. The only thing we dont do is bench press and arms. For upper boddy we do standing shoulder pressing.
But please feel free to ask. I can help with programming or whatever general questions people may have. -
@yannis Impressive resume! Do you still practice the Olympic lifts now that you are older? How has your training evolved with age (higher reps, lower weight or vice versa)? Do you lift for strength, conditioning, or some hybrid of the two?
Nearing 50, I am very concerned about joint health and want to keep lifting for as long as possible. I really would appreciate your insights.
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I am 57 years old and yes i still practice the lifts. I workout 5 days a week. As you get older manipulating volume and intensity is key. As far as Olympic weightlifting goes 2 things i notice as i got older. First and most important i got slower. As a weightlifter this is crucial because the time it takes you to go from full extension to full flexion dectates ultimately how much you can clean or snatch. I plain terms i cannot clean or snatch nearly what i was able to when younger not because im that much weaker, but because i cannot get under heavy barbells fast enough to catch them. So my ass is slow lol!. We lose speed more so than strength as we age. Second i do not recover as fast if i go heavy. So high frequency with relatively low intensity 75% usually is what keeps me healthy.
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Lifter Problems:
Can't fit in IH bottoms.
In all seriousness, I have been in quarantine for a week because my gf tested positive. I have not worked out and I feel terrible. I am slowly acquiring gym gear for the garage build i am doing, which slows down my IH purchasing. However, I did just score a power rack for a fraction of the normal price. Hoping to have it done before next winter.
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Lifter Problems:
Can't fit in IH bottoms.
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Lifter Problems:
Can't fit in IH bottoms.
Familiar with it - has been out of stock for quite a while. Also for me, the 21oz will rarely be worn due to the climate here.
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Wonder if 888-SST, perhaps sized up, would do the trick…
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I've got scoliosis, and after two years of sedentary life due to lockdowns, I'm not comfortable going over about 80 to 100 kg in a deadlift or squat.
There's a powerlifter, bodybuilder, and physiotherapy genius in Melbourne called Dr Andrew Lock. He's come up with a set of exercises (the Lock Big 5) that he uses as the basis for rehabilitation. They're based on Stuart McGill's Big 3.
I gave them a go this morning, and my back really felt it. Hopefully it'll sort things out.
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So, I dislocated my shoulder over the winter break (bad spill on a bike in Hawaii, also chipped two teeth and had a few road abrasions…) I've not been back to the gym since then. This is super frustrating. I'm used to barbell lifts but I will go back and try some of the leg machines, for lack of a better option. There's no way I can deadlift or even squat right now.
We have gotten a Peloton though, and it's been kind of a revelation. I cannot say I love it, but it's so very easy to use. It pairs readily with the Apple watch, displays your HR right on the screen, and it's super easy to target specific HR zones. I've been using it a lot.
