Random Rants
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I’m honestly not sure, Giles. I’ve never been privy to the books at any of the restaurants I worked for, but profit margins for restaurants are notoriously bad here. I think a lot of it is high food costs and crazy rent/overhead. But ironically a large amount of spending goes into labor already—even with these tipping structures in place.
I’m afraid it’s just another unsustainable system that we’ve dug our heels into entrenching instead of trying to work out a better way.
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I think the sub-minimum wage is the biggest problem here, but that still doesn't explain why every card reader in America now says "would you like to leave a tip?". I think a big part of that is just corporate greed and a bandwagon of trying to turn it into a supplementary profit. As a result, I've been tipping less and less. The system of tipping is beyond repair at this point. My solution will be to go back to tipping only for exceptional service. Sure some may get left out, but that's business. Do good business and earn the money, or don't. Otherwise, the next thing will be tips at the self-checkout. Self-checkout in itself is a failed experiment, which I'll save for another rant....
"The greatest obstacle to living is expectancy, which hangs upon tomorrow and loses today...The whole future lies in uncertainty: Live immediately."
-Seneca -
Also, DC restaurants are now able to add a "service fee" of up to 20% which supplements servers incomes, that doesn't count as a "tip". We no longer dine in DC.
"The greatest obstacle to living is expectancy, which hangs upon tomorrow and loses today...The whole future lies in uncertainty: Live immediately."
-Seneca -
I was at a restaurant once and didn't spot that the card reader was on the "Please enter your tip" screen of the process. I diligently entered my PIN number - which let's just say on a public forum starts with a number on the higher end of a 0-9 number pad - pressed the green button, and then thought something had gone wrong so did it again. I then pocketed the receipt, and strolled out of there.
That was peak tipping embarrassment in my experience. Worse than asking for a tip to be taken off the bill or arguing about percentages is asking for a refund of a high-double-figure tip you didn't realise you'd given until you'd realised your bank account was looking lighter than it should, found the receipt in your pocket, and gone back two days later.
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Bar and service staff in Norway (over the age of 20), are guaranteed approx $19 and hour by law and tipping is not expected. I'll round up a bill at my regular spots or chuck in 10% if the service is really good.
I'll add that employers will often try to con their staff on this, especially if they are foreign workers, by paying them the previous years tariff and hoping no one will notice. I had a Polish girlfriend a little while back that worked at hotel/restaurant/bar business on Lofoten. The outfit employed about 50 people all east European.
I checked her pay against the tariffs and it was well off. Took her to see a union rep in Bodø. They offered everyone at the place free membership, and wrote a shitty letter to the outfit. Everyone got their proper pay the following month, but were then served notice on the same day. Scumbag owners.
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@sabergirl I find the whole tipping malarkey so stressful in restaurants in the US that I would prefer the food prices to be 10% more expensive, and then just leave a 10% tip. The net financial cost to me is about the same, but the reduced stress levels would be priceless!
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@WhiskeySandwich isn't the idea of this to foster an environment where tipping isn't expected, but reserved exclusively for exceptional service?
“𝑁𝑒𝑣𝑒𝑟 𝑙𝑒𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑓𝑢𝑡𝑢𝑟𝑒 𝑑𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑢𝑟𝑏 𝑦𝑜𝑢. 𝑌𝑜𝑢 𝑤𝑖𝑙𝑙 𝑚𝑒𝑒𝑡 𝑖𝑡, 𝑖𝑓 𝑦𝑜𝑢 ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑒 𝑡𝑜, 𝑤𝑖𝑡ℎ 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑠𝑎𝑚𝑒 𝑤𝑒𝑎𝑝𝑜𝑛𝑠 𝑜𝑓 𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑠𝑜𝑛 𝑤ℎ𝑖𝑐ℎ 𝑡𝑜𝑑𝑎𝑦 𝑎𝑟𝑚 𝑦𝑜𝑢 𝑎𝑔𝑎𝑖𝑛𝑠𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑝𝑟𝑒𝑠𝑒𝑛𝑡.”
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@IrishHeart I recall hearing about a restaurant in NYC which did exactly this. They jacked up their prices by 10% (back when that was the standard tip) and then forbade tipping altogether. They increased all service staff's take-home pay accordingly, not just the front of house staff. Apparently it was wildly popular, and really good for staff that had young families and commitments like that because they didn't need to fight over the better-tipping dinner service.
I wanna say I read about it in one of the Freakonomics books or heard about it on the podcast they used to do, but I'm not 100% on that.
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Enjoying reading over the tip discussion y’all @WhiskeySandwich you hit a nerve touching on self checkout. Majority of US grocery stores have about 15 to 20 lanes with only 2-3 ever open. The greed to staff as little as possible is disturbing at best… I also catch myself daydreaming of spear tackling one of those 6 foot tall roomba robot cleaners every time I’m in the produce section.
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@T4920 the idea of what? the "service charge"? i think its just overcomplicating the solution by calling "this" "that", and not really resolving anything. What @IrishHeart or what @EdH said would probably be better imo. Just leave it out. Charge the price and leave it at that. Same goes with the car market dealer markups (will save for another rant lol).
"The greatest obstacle to living is expectancy, which hangs upon tomorrow and loses today...The whole future lies in uncertainty: Live immediately."
-Seneca -
@flannel-slut
100% -
@WhiskeySandwich said in Random Rants:
@T4920 the idea of what? the "service charge"? i think its just overcomplicating the solution by calling "this" "that", and not really resolving anything.
I just mean that if you know there's gonna be 20% charge before you sit down to eat, that should at least buy you the peace of mind of knowing your server is being fairly compensated for their work, and remove any awkwardness/uncertainty regarding a tip when clearing your cheque.
If it's just a means of the establishment making their pricing seem more affordable than it actually is, and the servers still expect a tip on top of that, then I agree it's a scummy practice worthy of boycotting!
“𝑁𝑒𝑣𝑒𝑟 𝑙𝑒𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑓𝑢𝑡𝑢𝑟𝑒 𝑑𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑢𝑟𝑏 𝑦𝑜𝑢. 𝑌𝑜𝑢 𝑤𝑖𝑙𝑙 𝑚𝑒𝑒𝑡 𝑖𝑡, 𝑖𝑓 𝑦𝑜𝑢 ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑒 𝑡𝑜, 𝑤𝑖𝑡ℎ 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑠𝑎𝑚𝑒 𝑤𝑒𝑎𝑝𝑜𝑛𝑠 𝑜𝑓 𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑠𝑜𝑛 𝑤ℎ𝑖𝑐ℎ 𝑡𝑜𝑑𝑎𝑦 𝑎𝑟𝑚 𝑦𝑜𝑢 𝑎𝑔𝑎𝑖𝑛𝑠𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑝𝑟𝑒𝑠𝑒𝑛𝑡.”
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@EdH brilliant. If you ever find out the name of that restaurant, I’ll be sure to visit next time I’m over!
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@T4920 I'm just not down with convoluted inconsistent cost models. Frankly, the last thing I want to do when I go out to eat is extra math calculations and concern myself with employee-employer business relations. Their wage negotiations should not affect the customer in any visible way. Food, cars, clothes, are all products for sale and should follow a one-price model. You list a price, you pay that price, the end. I'm not the Bistro's CFO. Ease of calculation of the bill goes a long way for repeat customers at restaurants. We go out to eat for a stress break and this stuff doesn't help lol. But yeah, scummy businesses confuse their customers about price and don't properly pay their staff, so boycott it is
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@endo i do think a lot of minimum wages are absurdly low, some are also ridiculously high as well in some states here. I think the thing to remember with minimum wage is this: the intent here is that its an entry level wage for people entering the workforce in most cases. I made minimum wage when I first entered the work force, but the idea is to not stagnate in your career advancement. That being said, businesses should treat both employees and customers fairly, and a successful company can balance this out. I dont think extra charges and tips have any place in that balance. a "tip" should only be praise, not wage, and have nothing to do with the company. it is between two people.
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The entry-level argument for minimum wages doesn’t hold any water at this point, @WhiskeySandwich . If you look at the demographics of who works these jobs it’s majority adults, specifically women and people of color.
Regardless of whether it’s intended for people to “stagnate” in these positions, for may people it’s the only opportunity for employment they have.
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@sabergirl Sorry I didn't realize I walked into a political trope. As far as holding water, i believe that's putting the cart in front of the horse by adding demographics to those statistics. Cause or effect? People surely aren't entering the workforce at much a higher level, and it was the only opportunity I had at the time. I had to do it twice even, when my first career path didn't work out thanks to the 2008 economy. I don't believe its the "intent" to stagnate at all. Either way, I think there is much progress to be made with the rules, employers, and employees.
